All lives matter

[Scoobyboob]

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/28/karen-memes-jokes-arent-sexist-or-racist-let-karen-explain/?arc404=true Here's an article explaining why karen is not a slur by a Karen who happens to be black

Oh good, my daughter's back. . .

@mbosnz

I worry about it because that's my name, and it's become a byword for something awful.

I can understand you feeling like that.

However, have you ever faced the very real possibility of being murdered by the police because your name is Karen? As a white middle aged woman, have you ever faced the possibility of being murdered because you went running?

Isn't the anger about "Karen" that's it used as a sexist and mysogynystic slur against women? And then you ask if women live with a threat to their lives? As much as I disagree with the FWR board maybe you should go on there and state that women don't live with the fear of being murdered, or raped, when they go running.

Hm. While I support BLM, I also support the fact that ALM too. One does not rule out the other. To clear up any confusion, I am also not white so I’m not sure a BAME-only space would get you the echo chamber you seem to desire OP.

I don’t use any slurs, including “Karen” because that’s just racing to the bottom by emulating a racist. We should be better than that.

On a side note, Obama paid all the African Americans reparations money for their ancestors slave days but I have yet to see my Asian ethnic brothers and sisters given any reparations for their US slave days, after all every US railroad is built on the blood and bones of Asian slaves. You can call that “hijacking” because surprise! Not just black people have suffered from racism and slavery.

There is something fundamentally wrong with silencing any voice even white ones. We can’t be an inclusive and equal society if any group is told to STFU because of the colour of their skin and we don’t like what we hear/it makes us uncomfortable.

Just stated the exact opposite Hooves. So basically conceding that point.

However, as a woman, I can also be concerned for the very real dangers and threats to life, limbs, and liberty faced by other women's fathers, husbands, and sons and their lack of protection by the arms of governance that are supposed to keep us safe - the police and the judiciary.

Of course nobody is murdered for being named Karen.

Men who rape and kill don't give a shit what womens names are.

I find it so weird that somehow MAWWNLK (middle aged women with names like K) walk freely through life safe in the knowledge that their white skin will keep them safe from attack?

No woman has that feeling of safety. So asking if I know what it's like to be scared to go jogging seems like an own goal. I run in a gym on a treadmill because amongst other reasons, it feels so much safer.

Nobody is going to attack me for the colour of my skin, and I understand that's my privilege. But women are attacked and murdered so often in this country that most of the murders don't make the front pages.

My name won't save me if I meet a violent man. It hasn't saved me from street harassment, and it didn't save me from being approached by multiple men when I was aged 11 onwards.

Can I imagine being in fear of my life, unable to defend myself? Yes, I've never met a woman who can't.

Of course all lives matter BUT right now, it's black lives that need attention, it's black lives that need support, it's black lives who are being lost to racism. So while, generally, all lives matter that is not the issue at hand.
I think that's where people are getting hung up. The black lives matter movement isn't taking away from other lives, it just wants black lives to be treated equally.
(NB I stand with black lives matter, I'm not saying we should be saying "all lives matter")
There is systemic racism (especially in America it seems) and white privilege is a thing. Yes, I have experienced prejudice because of my heritage but not because of my skin colour. It's not the same and I certainly won't be profiled by the police or potentially murdered because of the colour of my skin or my heritage.

@PlanDeRaccordement

On a side note, Obama paid all the African Americans reparations money for their ancestors

He did? When? Please cite your source as this is news to me! Thanks

mbosnz

Yeah we cross posted.

Of course we can be concerned for different groups at the same time but that wasn't what the op did was it?

She stood up for one group whilst employing a different ism against another group. Is it ok for women to fight sexism and throw in a bit of racism at the end? I don't think so.

Why can't you just fight for the rights of one group without being offensive to another group?

darwin301

Kunniarotta

Don't be ridiculous, of course it's a slur. It's always used in a negative way. Even if a black woman says otherwise.

This is an interesting US study done last year into the races of the US police officers that are murdering people:

“New research from Michigan State University and University of Maryland reveals findings that flip many of these reports on their heads – white police officers are not more likely to have shot minority citizens than non-white officers.

“Until now, there’s never been a systematic, nationwide study to determine the characteristics of police involved in fatal officer-involved shootings,” said Joseph Cesario, co-author and professor of psychology at MSU. “There are so many examples of people saying that when black citizens are shot by police, it’s white officers shooting them. In fact, our findings show no support that black citizens are more likely to be shot by white officers."

The findings – published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, or PNAS – are based on an independent database Cesario and his team created that catalogued each police shooting from 2015. The team – led also by co-author David Johnson from University of Maryland – contacted every police department that had a fatal police shooting to get the race, sex and years of experience for every officer involved in each incident. The team also leveraged data from police shooting databases by The Washington Post and The Guardian.

“We found that the race of the officer doesn’t matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot," Cesario said. "If anything, black citizens are more likely to have been shot by black officers ,but this is because black officers are drawn from the same population that they police. So, the more black citizens there are in a community, the more black police officers there are.”

msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/

Why can't you just fight for the rights of one group without being offensive to another group?

I guess her focus was elsewhere? Given the circumstances, I can understand why! Because she was angry? Given the circumstances, I can understand why!

What about the black man who was birdwatching that politely asked a white female who had her dog off the leash in an area where it should have been leashed, to put her dog on the leash, who threatened him with calling the police on him? What kind of privilege was that in action?

I read the link. She dismissed Julie Bindel for 'anti trans rhetoric'. But I still finished it.

The usual special pleading. Words hurt us, but they don't hurt you. It's because of history. Men too. It's humour.

She's entitled to her view, it's her name and her life experience. But it doesn't work for me, a UK feminist.

@mbosnz

Why can't you just fight for the rights of one group without being offensive to another group?

I guess her focus was elsewhere? Given the circumstances, I can understand why! Because she was angry? Given the circumstances, I can understand why!

What about the black man who was birdwatching that politely asked a white female who had her dog off the leash in an area where it should have been leashed, to put her dog on the leash, who threatened him with calling the police on him? What kind of privilege was that in action?

We'll, I don't know.

Stripping it down maybe a woman alone felt threatened by a man? I don't know because I don't know the details but having read lots on the FWR board I see that view expressed over and over again - that many women feel threatened whenever they are alone with a strange man.

Again, I don't think we should be excusing any discrimination regardless of context. You've just said it's excusable for the op to employ a sexist and misogynistic term because she's upset. It doesn't take a huge leap for some people to want to excuse racism for the same reason does it? Why can't we all do better?

Jangirl,
Well I’m mortified now.
I thought the 2009 law HR 40 www.congress.gov/111/bills/sconres26/BILLS-111sconres26es.pdf
that Obama passed included reparations because I was told that by listening to a friend here in France. But I’ve looked it up and discovered, it was just an apology! Outrageous!
I am now aware no reparations have been paid to any slave descendants at all. The US needs to do that as soon as possible. Thank you for calling me on it, because I mistakenly trusted my friend and they’ve given me bad information. Sorry to have posted it without fact checking.

Kunniarotta

You've just typed out that response, but I'm the idiot?

I won't resort to name calling as many have on this thread. Name calling is for people who have no valid argument.

Kunniarotta

Oh, because that's so much better?

Don't play word games. We both know what you meant.

I can only speak for myself, but this thread didn't engage me in standing up against racial prejudice because in trying to get me to do so, the OP thought it was right to engage in another form of prejudice.

This

Aw poor Karen! Her life opportunities, lifespan and safety are all at risk over a slang term.
Felicia's
shaniqua's
Becky's
D'Quan's
Can you all confirm if you all have suffered like this Karen please?

I can only speak for myself, but this thread didn't engage me in standing up against racial prejudice because in trying to get me to do so, the OP thought it was right to engage in another form of prejudice.

Also women, called Karen or otherwise aren't actually responsible for this violence.

The anger is understandable but channeling it onto a group of people who aren't actually responsible for the actions isn't going to move the conversation forward.

Don't play word games. We both know what you meant.

Well if the shoe fits...

Obviously insults aren't a good way to have a discussion but then again I have no interest in sensible discussion with the type of people like yourself who minimising racism.

@MamaLion1319

Aw poor Karen! Her life opportunities, lifespan and safety are all at risk over a slang term. Felicia's shaniqua's Becky's D'Quan's Can you all confirm if you all have suffered like this Karen please?

THANK YOU AND WELL SAID 👏🏼