To return the money to my husband or not?

[YouCanMakeItIfYouTry]

We've started our divorce proceedings and all is amicable, so far. No lawyers yet involved.

Money has always been a source of contention in our 10-year marriage.

He always earned much more than I did. His money went more onto property, legal, landlording (when we rented out our home and lived overseas), shares, bonds, holidays, car.

I worked throughout (mostly full time but also for myself at times) and I contributed to all daily life, food, school, child care, nannies, household, and holidays (I paid what I could, sometimes in instalments after, because we went on trips beyond my means that he always choose and I didn't really object to).

I had a full-time job I was really proud of until I had my last baby when I had to quit.

For our divorce settlement, he is asking for a 50/50 split on the profits of selling the house - minus the money he put in to buy the property.

The house situation is this:

He bought the home with the money he earned in his 20s, mostly but not all before we met. When he bought the home we were engaged. It was a year before we married. That was 10 years ago. I was in no position to contribute.

I have lived in the home, paid rent, married while in the home, lived overseas together where I contributed (as above) and the home was rented out. We now have three kids. We came back and have all lived in the home again for a while. We don't now.

So, in short, he wants the £150,000 back that he put in to buy the house.

On sale of the property, we'll hopefully get £450,000 profit.

That means, with his offer, I'll hopefully leave with £150,000 cash for a house for a deposit for me and the kids to live in most of the time. He'll get £300,000. He promises to take care of maintenance above and beyond for the kids financially (he'll be working longer hours while I work for myself and build my new business up and do more childcare.)

What do you think? What would you do?

I've set up a vote:

YABU - to not take this offer. You think what he is saying is fair. I should split profits on the home plus return the £150,000 cash he bought the house with.

YANBU - to not take this offer. I should not agree to this offer and not return £150,000. If you wouldn't take this offer, what do you think is fair and why?

Thank you.

@SimonJT the principle of s25 is fairness and you're wrong and it's irrelevant where you marry, it's the jurisdiction in which you divorce which is relevant.

Remember your getting a divorce, so your splitting up, so shrug it off, don't try to be his friend .

Solicitor. Now.

Op should definitely speak to a solicitor. But all this talk about forensic accountants and imaginary pensions and shares etc is way off mark on the facts we have here. Op says her dh was an employee overseas and has no pension. A forensic accountant is for someone who is self employed or has their own business. That would not appear to be the case here.

Was going to ask who suggested no lawyer was needed but OP you have stated HE did....which confirms all we need to know

What would you advise your children in this situation? You’d tell them to get professional advice.

There’s your answer.

It's been three days since I posted this and thanks to all your advice, emotionally I already feel in a very different place.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you that replied. I've gone through the replies a few times and light bulbs have been going off for me with regards to things he has said in the past.

I realise now that when he says we are being amicable is a veiled threat that we are amicable as long as I say yes to what he wants. Should I question this, as I have tried, he says, 'but I thought we were being amicable.' Funny how when he does business he prides himself on 'keeping his emotions out of it' but when it comes to negotiating with me it is a different matter.

I realise now that he doesn't have the children's (least mine) interests for the future at heart. I've realised this because last year when I asked for the second time for a divorce, I had a breakdown. At that stage I just wanted out and said I'd take anything, I just wanted the marriage to end, I picked £100,000 - a number I picked from the sky and he agreed to that. Of course, he would! In hindsight, we was prepared to let me and kids try to build a future with that amount while pocketing £350,000 for himself. I was just so tired at that time but in hindsight, it seems much clearer. For the first time, I feel angry about this.

He's never once mentioned the kids in all this and now I will protect them like a mother bear and ensure they have the best daily life I can give them.

I'd also like to thank all the lawyers who replied to my post saying that they do advise the way forward. Your clear and generous advice on here really removed some of the confusion around that for me.

I found out that last year, at the time I had the breakdown, he went to see a lawyer for advice but it seems they also sent him packing, telling him I could get much more than I was asking for. So thanks to all the lawyers fighting the good fight from their desks.

Also annoying is that his old bastard boss/mentor told him to quickly lawyer up. His parents even secretly paid for the trip to the lawyers (!) and yet, I have had no one telling me to do the same, before now. He keeps saying he wants to keep the lawyers out - what a contradiction to the advice he gets! Funny how also he is usually very keen to threaten people that cross him with legal advice, but again, where I am concerned it is a different matter.

As someone said on here, I agree that marriage these days means both parties enter at different stages of life and wealth, as opposed to years gone by when they were both often super young and equally built a life together, meaning a 50/50 split should be fair. That said, that fact the law has been carefully crafted in this country to ensure both parties are on equal footing moving forward following the marriage, and more importantly, the children! have a fair life, I am ready to fight, much harder.

Someone else pointed out - it would be grossly unfair for the kids to lavish in luxury at dad's house, getting the best holidays and getting the best of happy relaxed Disneyland Daddy (I said that, not she :) ) but for the majority of the time, they are with me living with me and slogging through daily life to make ends meet.

Thanks for this.

I've reached out to a SHL lawyer. I met her last year and non-legally speaking she is hard as nails. My husband is going to detest her with every cell in his body. His personality is such that if I move all my chess pieces into place, and he cannot win, he is likely to back down easily. He doesn't like to lose.

Moving forward, I feel at peace with something like this:

• I gift back the £150,000
• We split all profits fo all assets 70/30 based on loss of my earnings, my trusting of his financial advice that I should "never waste my money on a pension", being forced to live a life beyond my salary means, loss of my job and earning potential and that I will still be doing the majority of child care making it hard (not for the first time) to build up my business.
• That should mean around £210,000 for me / £240,000 for him.

We may then see his true colours. If he is as fair as he says, he should be happy our children will have a good life with both of us (and that I've not gone for 70/30 of everything).

The person who said this changed it all for me:

Needs, particularly the children’s needs, are the priority and this outweigh contributions.

In short, my offer will return his money and then create a financial offering based on my children's life needs.

I feel this is fair and with my SHL lawyer on board, I'm ready. X

Thanks also @PostcodeJack I think you really understood our situation as ex- expats.

Yes, there was a concern with CGT, hence why we, the whole family, had to go back and live in this tiny, pre-marriage flat. This was around the time I had the breakdown and the stress of us all living here again may have contributed. I took my family out of there soon after and so again CGT is an issue. It just needs to be paid now once the house is sold.

I also don't want lawyers to ruin anything that could still potentially be amicable. There is still hope. He'll get amble chance for us to try do it without them. I just know that if he knows I've been in contact with a very good one he'll treat me with more respect.

Well done Op.
However, I disagree with 'gifting' the £150k. It is part of your marital assets and you can absolutely bet he has sneakily put much more than that our of your reach (or so he thinks). Don't make any such offer to him until your lawyer has walked you through what you deserve.

This is ridiculous, he's only offered you one asset. What about the bonds, shares and pension he has. Get a solicitor, he's trying to pull a fast one on you.

I’m glad you have a SHL OP.

But your figures are based on the assets you know about and I strongly suspect that there are hidden ones. You need to play detective.

My DSL’s was the opposite, she had a house worth £150k when she married dh2. 5 years later when they divorced he ended up with half the equity less the original £150k. He supported her through Uni for 3 years both emotionally and financially.
Another friend had the opposite. Moved into DHs house, had 2 dcs straight away, never worked, they split and he was forced to give her half the equity. She remarried straight away. Divorced again 2 yrs later and he got a huge chunk of the equity.
Morally he should get his original money back then split the rest.

Don't give him anything without the SHLawyer organising it all.
He's trying to screw you and the kids over, she will protect you finacially.
How his parents can justify helping him to screw their grandchildren over amazes me.

I would put good money on your H having assets that you don’t know about. Don’t make any offers financially until you have the full picture.

No man who save £150k before he married suddenly becomes a spender.
He has the money hidden away.
Well won't he be happy when you get too see his bank account.

Don't tell him about the SHL to soon, he will will give him a heads up & get him hiding his assets

I strongly doubt that the property is the only asset. I work in finance (and I am a lawyer) people are usually very clued up. I would be surprised, if, on an expat salary, he hadn’t built up savings and investments somewhere.
Don’t make peace with any offer without getting your SHL to get details of exactly where all of his salary has gone when you were paying him instalments for holidays.

@Troels Although I thought his parents paying for his legal advice that he can already afford was really mean and sneaky, I didn't think if it as trying to screw their own grandkids before you said that. God, what a wake-up call. Knowing what they are like, I'm not surprised but now I'm so angry (and hurt) about it.

Thanks for the incentive/clue to remind me that his family and him are really not fair.

@wineandroses1

Well done Op. However, I disagree with 'gifting' the £150k. It is part of your marital assets and you can absolutely bet he has sneakily put much more than that our of your reach (or so he thinks). Don't make any such offer to him until your lawyer has walked you through what you deserve.

This x 1000. Please, please keep that £150k in the pot. And make sure your lawyer finds everything else. This is your one and only shot at getting what you’re entitled to. Stop being nice and wanting it to be amicable. It’s not going to be. Be as ruthless as him.

Thank you @wineandroses and @wineandroses1My thinking behind the terminology of a 'gift' was more that if he doesn't agree to the 70/30 on the table, the gift can be retracted.

(And also I like the notion that I have chosen to gift him something that could be mine - he was always going on about the gifts he had bought and I was supposed to always be so very grateful. )

I would also include that he pays for both parties legal fees, help him focus his mind on resolving it quickly and as a much higher earner totally reasonable!!!

Legal advice.

The extent to which your earning potential has been undermined by raising the family you chose to have together is never fully recoverable.

You need to get every penny you can and prepare for retirement.

OP don't forget the COST he's saved by you doing the childcare yourself.

I've has a quick google and found this - I'm sure the MNers on here can advise if these numbers are accurate or not.
www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/childcare-costs

Also do take care not to show your hand too soon because it does sound as though he'll take full advantage, to your detriment. Do let your SHL guide you as far as possible here.

You are entitled to half. Don't leave with anything less. The house is an asset of the marriage. Did you clean it, decorate it, furnish it. Time to keep things amicable but let the lawyers do the talking.

Hi, I’m sure that as you aided his career and earning potential by being the main childcare... it means that the law looks at it differently to what’s owed or split. If you google it has lots of examples where a wife hasn’t contributed financially but still should get an equal share. Legal advice as how do you know what’s fair. Of course he will want his share as he’s money driven by the sounds of it. Regardless of maintenance agreements... this is about the family finances and what’s right and fair. Good luck

Just supported my dB through this. Tenants in common, deed of trust totally irrelevant apparently - default starting point is 50/50 (both working, aiming for 50/50 child care)...

Then assessment of cost of housing plus all other living expenses from both of them, then hammered out agreement with mediator. Cheaper than lawyers but take someone with you to kick you under the table if you are reacting badly! Your costs include housing, childcare, food, travel/car, bills. Remember potential costs like orthodontics, school uniform, haircuts, clothes/shoes, presents for taking to parties, school books/iPads/computers...cos I can guarantee you’ll be organising and paying for these.

Get the lawyer to Ask where his income has gone if he doesn’t have pension/investments? They (or the mediator) should ask for bank statements anyway...you will need some way to find what he has almost certainly hidden.