To return the money to my husband or not?

[YouCanMakeItIfYouTry]

We've started our divorce proceedings and all is amicable, so far. No lawyers yet involved.

Money has always been a source of contention in our 10-year marriage.

He always earned much more than I did. His money went more onto property, legal, landlording (when we rented out our home and lived overseas), shares, bonds, holidays, car.

I worked throughout (mostly full time but also for myself at times) and I contributed to all daily life, food, school, child care, nannies, household, and holidays (I paid what I could, sometimes in instalments after, because we went on trips beyond my means that he always choose and I didn't really object to).

I had a full-time job I was really proud of until I had my last baby when I had to quit.

For our divorce settlement, he is asking for a 50/50 split on the profits of selling the house - minus the money he put in to buy the property.

The house situation is this:

He bought the home with the money he earned in his 20s, mostly but not all before we met. When he bought the home we were engaged. It was a year before we married. That was 10 years ago. I was in no position to contribute.

I have lived in the home, paid rent, married while in the home, lived overseas together where I contributed (as above) and the home was rented out. We now have three kids. We came back and have all lived in the home again for a while. We don't now.

So, in short, he wants the £150,000 back that he put in to buy the house.

On sale of the property, we'll hopefully get £450,000 profit.

That means, with his offer, I'll hopefully leave with £150,000 cash for a house for a deposit for me and the kids to live in most of the time. He'll get £300,000. He promises to take care of maintenance above and beyond for the kids financially (he'll be working longer hours while I work for myself and build my new business up and do more childcare.)

What do you think? What would you do?

I've set up a vote:

YABU - to not take this offer. You think what he is saying is fair. I should split profits on the home plus return the £150,000 cash he bought the house with.

YANBU - to not take this offer. I should not agree to this offer and not return £150,000. If you wouldn't take this offer, what do you think is fair and why?

Thank you.

'With all my wordly goods, I thee endow'.
50:50

Worldly even!!!

Leaping on the band wagon here, he was financially abusive during the marriage and he’s trying to be even more financially abusive now.

If he’s left, it may be too late but if you have any way of accumulating details of his finances (overlooked paper statements etc.) you need to start gathering them.

If there is any risk he will go self- employed (and deliberately reduce his income and hence maintenance) you need as big a capital sum as you are legally entitled to.

There are hundreds of thousands of pounds at stake. You need a good lawyer and now.

Your entitled to half and he knows it! Hence the 'promises' - get a lawyer asap

OP you really need proper legal AND accounting advice.

Could you do a quick totting up of your income foregone - including potential for future earnings & pension - because of children - maternity leave, managing the "double shift" childcare, running the household etc.

Don't forget trying to cost examples of the ways in which you took on more of the domestic load to enable your exH to push forward in his job - to work longer hours, study, or get promoted etc.

He's not offering fairness as far as I can see

@SimonJT that agreement won't work if you marry . . .

The reason I say to gather information about finances is because he seems to have convinced you he gets to keep anything in his name only which is complete rubbish. This is money / property you are entitled to have split with you on divorce.

I would also not believe a word of the non-pension unless conclusively proved true by a forensic accountant.

I divorced without a lawyer. It was fine because neither of us had anything worth any money. With the sums you're talking about, you definitely need a lawyer. It doesn't sound like you got a fair deal out of the marriage, financially speaking, and that was when you were together. He will screw you over even worse now you're split.

He works in finance. You need a lawyer, and possibly a forensic accountant.

I'm not opposed to the idea of ringfencing his deposit, but I think the split of equity should be more like 60:40 (or 70:30?) in your favour, to recognise the sacrifice of your career, and that you're going to have to build it up pretty much from scratch again.

Will he be splitting childcare with you 50:50? Or will he be an EOW dad? The first would help you get back into a job easier...

Someone working in finance with no pension ? Must be shit at his job!

[quote Cinderella66]@SimonJT that agreement won't work if you marry . . .[/quote]
I won’t be marrying in the UK (in the unlikely event I get married), so for me it will. If we did marry (and continue to reside) in the UK it will work as I will have paid all monies into the asset, I’m the parent and we earn similar amounts so it would be covered as a genuine trust under section 25 of the matrimonial causes act.

But the OP or her husband didn't have children before marriage. So no assets have to be protected there.

It's been very unequal and he wants it to carry on being unequal.

The OP is being shafted.

He has messed with you head. Get what is fair and don't bank on promises of future maintenance because that could disappear. You need stability now. How has your availability improved his career? How has having children impacted on your past and future earnings?

You can focus on one asset. You have to look at the whole picture.

This may be helpful OP

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/marriage-your-rights-to-your-home/

Don't believe anything your STBXH says, you cannot trust him, he has been shafting you financially your whole time together, so why would he change when you are splitting up. You need a lawyer and a forensic accountant and go for everything you can get, if not, you and your children will be well and truly shafted and paying the price for years to come. Come on here for advice and support if you need to. Good luck.

Just as a matter of interest, you said "we" all lived in the house initially and now "we" don't. I'm not sure if "we" relates to the whole family including your husband or just you and your children. If it means the whole family and none of you are living there, then there's also the potential issue of CGT.

As an aside, I do think his pre-marriage deposit/assets should be ring-fenced but then anything beyond that should be split equitably (which, if the children stay with you, does not necessarily mean 50-50).

I wouldn't be that surprised on the lack of assets (especially a pension if he worked as an ex-pat) other than the ones you mention. Despite being in finance and making decent money, I don't have any investments other than my house and savings (and only lately a pension after 10 years without paying into one). But I'd still look into what he has. A lot of people I know in finance still live hand to mouth because they want an extravagant lifestyle. Others are more prudent.

Echoing PP to say get some legal advice but don't let your lawyers try to permanently damage what could be an amicable divorce with unreasonable expectations. I have seen this time and time again (indeed, my initial consultation when I decided to divorce included the solicitor telling me I should go after his business but I shouldn't give up mine and to try and make him destitute). I handled my own divorce after that.

I'm not discounting that he may be trying to screw you. But he may not be.

if you came into the relationship with money while he had none, would you like to give him half of what you worked hard for without him?

Yes as that's what you sign up for when you marry, plus if we'd had kids and he'd given up his career to look after the dc and enable me to build up my career. Seems only fair

That’s not necessarily what you sign up for when you get married. Back in the day couples would get married young and build together. These days people are building first and then getting married and sometimes divorcing and getting married again. I don’t think it’s fair for one person to make sacrifices before the relationship to get ahead and then has to share that money. However any money made during the marriage should be equally split because that’s when it’s a partnership. One might make more but the other is giving up career opportunities or enabling the other to get ahead. That doesn’t necessarily mean a 50/50 split. It depends on children, ages and what not.

He is not even offering you half of the money you made together in the marriage. If he works in finance half the house minus his deposit is likely to be way less than half your joint assets.

He was financially abusing you when you were together he is not going to treat you well during a split.

The main difference between your situation and SimonJT is that you may have brought fewer assets to your marriage but you have 3 children together and you are their main carer. That is a huge contribution to the marriage and your children need to be well provided for.

Simon probably would get to keep his house in the event of him splitting with his husband as he has a child and they are not going to make his child homeless to give money to his partner who doesn’t have a child.

I am assuming given the amount of money involved that you live in an expensive area. You are not going to get a house that is suitable for 3 children with the money he is offering you.

I was married to one of these guys. I would frame it to him that he is getting the £150k back but you are getting a higher percentage of your joint assets so you can provide for your children.

Oh and get a good lawyer!

Personally, I think he should get the £150k back.

However, I think you should also make an adjustment for loss of earnings. How much did you earn at that job you were really proud of? How long ago did you quit? Have you stayed up-to-date, or do you realistically need to spend time retraining to get back up to the level you were at (how much would that cost?), and what's the salary differential between what you were earning then and what you would have been earning now?

The calculation I am proposing is more complicated and I don't know what number you'll get to by the end of it, but I think it's a fairer way of looking at it. He gets back the money he put in from his life before, and you get back the earning potential you gave up to raise the children (which presumably was by mutual agreement).

Never ever trust a man who says he will pay over and aboveboard for the children after a marriage/relationship has ended.

Get it legally signed and sealed so he can’t renege on his generous offer.

Most men don’t want to carry on paying even basic maintenance for their children when they’ve got a new relationship and this man is very very money orientated he won’t want to give up a single penny.

And if he goes to work/live overseas you won’t get any maintenance at all.

Please stop listening to what he says. He’s not your friend any more. Take legal advice and if you can’t amicably agree let the court decide. You’ll get more than you think, because the court knows that money will not go as far as you suppose.

Absolutely agree with what @frazzledasarock said.
My ex does pay maintenance via CMS and you can tell he absolutely resents it. If I ask for a contribution to school trips etc he will not consider it. He literally will not pay a penny over the legal minimum- I can demonstrate my correct use of "literally" by explaining that the maintenance he pays is an amount that any normal person would round up - think for example £299.86 - most people would think "oh - £300" right? No, not him, no way am I getting my gold digging hands on his 14p.

Don't trust him an inch!

There is a case for him getting back the 150 K he put in when he bought the house before the marriage.
However, by appearing to try to be reasonable and not involve solicitors he is shafting you on the sly.
You need a solicitor ASAP, it doesn't matter what he says. Do not agree to anything. I think that aside from the issue of the 150K you should be entitled to at least 50% of all assets - including the rest of the house, all savings, shares and bonds.
Do not trust him to always pay above and beyond for his children.

Get to a solicitor this week.

YANBU, get a lawyer and get what you're legally entitled to. Good luck op