More bashing of mumsnet

[Ikeasucks]

Why are orgs and businesses just capitulating to this bullying? mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1265201870437519360

There are words that are banned on Mumsnet that are actual Twitter handles. But apparently MNHQ doesn’t do enough

If that was the case GMB are right to withdraw support

Oh my the GMB wont have anywhere left to hold online meetings.
They've got to leave Facebook and Twitter post haste.

After all beastiality and pedophilia are rife, let's not even get to the casual racism and disablist posts. Reddit doesn't lend itself well to such a meeting but its rife too.

Tell me where else can GMB get more recruits.

The funny thing about accusations of calling TW "men in dresses" (which, I reiterate, I have not done because like many posters here I think men should feel free to wear a dress if they want - let clothes be clothes, after all) is that a lot of discussion is about how self-id means there is no need for male-born people to present in any stereotypically "feminine" way to be a TW. We all understand that, as per the TRA arguments, any TW could look indistinguishable from any man. It is all about the inner gender of the person.

The notion of TW having to wear stereotypically feminine clothes in order to prove they have "lived as a woman" has had a lot of discussion here and many people think it itself is sexist.

@suggestionsplease1

Haven't plenty people said they've seen transphobic posts? It's just that they're usually removed swiftly by moderators. I imagine people with an agenda are getting the screenshots before this happens, so they do have their evidence. Unfortunately these records are probably enough to sway other organisations.

Some people with an agenda have been known to create these posts in the first place. Mumsnet is anonymous and allows unlimited name changing, it's also very easy to create multiple accounts.

The women on the feminist board are fully aware that the group of people trying to take down MN have no issue with fighting dirty.

There's a screenshot about Section 28 that does the rounds on TRA twitter that's practically folklore by now but we all know it was actually created by one of them.

Indeed popehilarious, I'm not sure why the concept of a bloke wearing a dress if he so chooses is such a negative and insulting one. We should all be able to wear dresses whenever we choose, whether that's constantly dresses or never. Regardless of sex or gender identity.

The only people I've ever seen on MN who use the term "men in dresses" are:

1. Women who don't regularly post on FWR, usually use Mumsnet for other things, aren't au fait with the debate or the moderation rules, but think trans ideology and politics is silly and pc nonsense

1. Transactivists who come here to "educate" us because we're all so ignorant about trans people and say things like "you think we're just men in dresses"

1. Allies of those transactivists

But it's feminist women who get blamed.

I should clarify as pp have said. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with men wearing dresses. It isn't used as an insult. Im not sure why people have a problem with it.

I think we all recognise there is more to transgenderism than that, whatever we may think about it.

But the only time I've ever seen it used as an insult (real or imagined slight) is by the three groups I've mentioned.

Let's just skip to the inevitable bit where you're asked to provide an example of transphobic and you don't and just say "it's everywhere" or "I tried to post on FWR and they were rude because I didn't appear to be posting in good faith" then the usual suspects will turn up and derail talking about toilets and how all men are a threat, are they?

That’s exactly it. There is no way to discuss these issues without being shouted down and insulted. There are so many people on MN that are anti-trans yeah yeah I know, you’re not anti-trans you’re just pro-women and very passionate about it. But I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of members support trans rights (and do not consider trans people mentally ill ) albeit in a less vociferous manner than the shouters. In real life the gender critical brigade is a fringe group at best. Ironically they do enjoy support from the far right— the GC ideology fits nicely with far right’s goals of maintaining traditional roles, silencing LGBTQ voices and keeping women barefoot and pregnant.

The bottom line is there’s simply no need to be dragged into a debate on here. It’s not our job to provide “evidence” of what is flagrant and obvious. We don’t confuse the GC shouting on here with any real world opinions.

Rightio! So, going back to the OP, do we think GMB will answer any of Maya's questions?

But I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of members support trans rights

It depends on what you think those "rights" are though. I support trans rights. No one should be sacked, punished or intimidated for being different and expressing their personality.

But in the issue of female only spaces, and clear definition of the issues of people who are biologically female, I prioritise the rights of women and girls over the feelings of males. You don't. It's ok. But do at least be honest about it instead of demonising women who do.

And if you think the majority of people in the UK support self ID or allowing pre op MTFs into women's spaces, or for them to be classed as female in sports, you are wrong.

Rightio! So, going back to the OP, do we think GMB will answer any of Maya's questions?

No, absolutely not. Imagine the Twitter storm that would cause! Perhaps they'll speak with Justine though.

the GC ideology fits nicely with far right’s goals of maintaining traditional roles, silencing LGBTQ voices and keeping women barefoot and pregnant

🤣🤣🤣

Yes I thought that was choice! Of course we're the science denyin' fundamentalist, extremist fringe group, rather than people who believe there is no such thing as biological sex.

@popehilarious

Rightio! So, going back to the OP, do we think GMB will answer any of Maya's questions?

Not unless Maya rebrands herself as Marcusbotski2000 and starts making unreasonable demands.

@BlackberryCane

Indeed popehilarious, I'm not sure why the concept of a bloke wearing a dress if he so chooses is such a negative and insulting one. We should all be able to wear dresses whenever we choose, whether that's constantly dresses or never. Regardless of sex or gender identity.

And I’ve seen many time on here (Men’s) kilts referred to as skirts. Shall I start crying ‘xenophobia’ and organise a boycot?

In real life the gender critical brigade is a fringe group at best

That's one of the most out of touch comments I've read in years. Have you seen the way the UK population votes in elections? Have you read the comments pages on UK newspapers? And for that matter have you noticed that the Guardian newspaper never allows comments on articles related to transgender issues?

Outside of Twitter, vanishingly few people think that a man is a woman just because he says so.

I also have a question regarding the psychological/mental illness issue. If you went to the doctor and said that you believed yourself to be something that you clearly aren't, that would be a mental illness. Unless the thing that you clearly aren't, but believe yourself to be, is the opposite sex. In that case it's supposedly not an illness. Why the difference?

Yeah, passive aggressive claims to know better and be better are definitely going to endear TRA types to the masses.

Meanwhile, on the subject of other groups taking a stance on this issue, the Iranian regime are very pro TWAW, and the British Communist movement has been pretty GC. This obviously means that all TWAW types are in league with the Ayatollah, and gender critical women are on the communist religious right.

WhatExit isn't going to answer, isabelle, because WhatExit doesn't have to can't back up their personal opinion on it.

the GC ideology fits nicely with far right’s goals of maintaining traditional roles, silencing LGBTQ voices and keeping women barefoot and pregnant.

Yes, conformity to gender stereotypes is exactly what gender critical feminists are after. Not the people who think that preferring the gender stereotypes associated with the other sex actually makes you the other sex.

It's like when young boys who want to play with barbies are told that they're wrong and have their toys taken away from them because they are deemed as 'girls toys'. Oh wait, sorry that's not GC feminists that do that, is it? I must be confused.

And again, to the point of the thread, even IF some posters here wanted to keep women barefoot and pregnant, and even IF the batshit crazy views of what GC “ideology” is, and even IF it’s just a vocal fringe minority, does any of that mean that GMB should abandon its plans to support women with their employment concerns?

What cannot be stated often enough that women currently struggling have lost that opportunity NOT because of Mumsnet’s history, but because activists on Twitter can’t stand differing views and GMB capitulated to them.

This thread is about the very opposite of keeping women barefoot and pregnant, it’s about keeping women in work, and how angry everyone is that those who purport to support that have abandoned such an idea.

I just find it odd that there are posters who side with those that are trying to get MN shutdown by agreeing that its transphobic but they still continue to post here 🤔

Thing is I absolutely support trans rights. I absolutely agree that people should be able to dress and present as they wish without discrimination.

Where I and TRA part company is in the belief that there is no such thing as biological reality. Being male or female is a simple biological fact which is immutable. No-one can change sex.

Don't try to apply logic pertella. Its ok for people with the correct opinions to post on platforms where awful things go unchecked. Hence woke twitter.

Things like this just make me love mumsnet more. Pretty much the only space we have to come and discuss these issues without being labelled transphobes.