More bashing of mumsnet

[Ikeasucks]

Why are orgs and businesses just capitulating to this bullying? mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1265201870437519360

dancingbear, it is, genuinely, disagreeing that TWAW that is the reason for the 'transphobia' allegations. Just try going on twitter and saying 'I'm not transphobic but I don't believe TWAW'. You would be on terfblocker in an instant.

More worryingly you say 'I recognise that there's a legitimate discussion to be had about that.' yet you are joining the argument that is doing everything they can to shut the discussion down.
If you think it's worthy of discussion then you are no different from me or most of the other FWR regulars in that respect.

Fucking hell, is it not possible to have a grown-up conversation without the point-scoring and sticking the boot in

My point is that you can adopt a broadly gender-critical position and still feel that there issome(frankly too much) stuff on this site that is intolerant and uncool
I'm reporting your previous post as its transphobic. Sorry but thems ths rules.

Shit innit.

You don't seriously think I'm a transphobe, do you, because I'm quite hurt by the suggestion?

More worryingly you say 'I recognise that there's a legitimate discussion to be had about that.' yet you are joining the argument that is doing everything they can to shut the discussion down.

This. To all people who do this: Grow. A. Spine.

Or stop pretending you care about women and girls.

Ereshkigalangcleg I care about trans rights, I also care about women and girls. Stop trying to divide people.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I really think you need to stop with this tiresome and actually potentially libelous agenda of putting words into peoples' mouths instead of waiting to hear what they have to say or respecting their silence.

Ok so you do think women and girls have the right to spaces without males!

Can someone enlighten me to why its anyones business if they identify as male or female, they are female if they say they are and its noone else's business, the posters saying otherwise are coming accross as bullies to transgender men and women

I care about trans rights.

Not at the expense of my own though.

That is what is dividing people.

Mumsnet making a stand against bullying is actually hilarious!!!!!!

I think people need to be very clear about what they mean

When previous posts talked about sport, changing rooms, prisons etc to then respond

"there is a debate to be had around women's sport"

Rather than

"there is a debate to be had around things such as women's sport"

Strongly implies that out of the previous listed things, only sport is relevant

I imagine the pro trans lobby will have taken a back seat during the global pandemic and will soon be doing what they can to get back into the consciousness of the public in whatever ways they can.

It is no ones business how someone identifies IF and only if they do no expect that identity to be accepted without question in all circumstances

So people can identify as female even if they are are male, fine, but if you start expecting me to believe that they are female, if you expect me to be accept the male person as female an pop them in the female prison, then , no sorry. You are no longer talking about your identity, you are talking about asserting your mindset and desires over other people's

Ereshkigalangcleg I care about trans rights, I also care about women and girls. Stop trying to divide people.

But Witchcraftandhokum, it’s impossible to uphold both the right of biologically female people to have boundaries that exclude all male people, and to fulfil the demand of some biologically male people to breach those boundaries.

Quite genuinely impossible. Irreconcilable.

I consider it a fundamental human right of mine, and of other women and girls who so wish, to have access to truly single sex spaces and services when appropriate or desirable. I don’t want to have to negotiate my human rights, or have them taken away from me.

You have to make a choice here. You are either on the side of the biologically female people who want genuinely single sex provision, or the side of those biologically male people who want exceptions to be made for them, rendering the spaces and services mixed sex. No longer single sex.

Either women’s right to withhold consent matters to you, or it doesn’t.

The issue everything stems from is that the mumsnet consensus seems to be trans women are not women and therefore are not treated as women, and often as predatory men in discussions, which itself is anti trans.

I've only just heard about this now. Told my mate who until now was a member. She's not going to be, going forward.

If transwomen were women they would not be transwomen

Duh

it is accurate to say that there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that there is a difference in the rates of behaviours such as sex related crimes between men and transwomen

There is similarly no evidence to support a hypothesis that transwomen commit sexual offences at the same rate as women

Thank you for your honesty, @MargotsBumpyNight. You have demonstrated how it is simply the heresy of not adhering to transactivist ideology that constitutes the “transphobia” of MN.

I am happy to declare that I will never join you in your religious belief that some biologically male people are in fact biologically female people. Ever.

And it is people like you, with your Stasi and Inquisition-like tendencies, who are the real bigots.

Here's what the T(M)RAs are saying about women and Mumsnet.

I am happy to declare that I will never join you in your religious belief that some biologically male people are in fact biologically female people. Ever.

Second this. No. It's not an invitation to negotiate.

The issue everything stems from is that the mumsnet consensus seems to be

You've already gone wrong there by claiming there is a 'mumsnet consensus'. Did you do any qualitative data analysis? MN posters are notorious for disagreeing on nearly everything.

But Witchcraftandhokum, it’s impossible to uphold both the right of biologically female people to have boundaries that exclude all male people, and to fulfil the demand of some biologically male people to breach those boundaries.

Quite genuinely impossible. Irreconcilable.

This. It's a zero sum game. If you (general you) don't at least see the issue here, you're not thinking about the rights of women and girls.

Campervan that is what one person is saying

@Campervan69...things is you get posters like that everywhere...

for eg.. you get some that post And it is people like you, with your Stasi and Inquisition-like tendencies, who are the real bigots.

in response to The issue everything stems from is that the mumsnet consensus seems to be trans women are not women and therefore are not treated as women, and often as predatory men in discussions, which itself is anti trans.

What's to be done?!

I care about trans rights, I also care about women and girls.

I'm sorry, I don't accept that. My opinion. For all the reasons mentioned. And I will call out your lack of care for women and girls.

As a small aside, I do find it mildly ironic sometimes that for a group of apparent feminists, the debate style on FWR is SO reminiscent of the Gamergate crowd. I kind of wonder if there is some crossover at times, and there's a GC crowd who really care about ethics in games journalist.

Campervan that is what one person is saying

Do you think that's a particularly original take from trans activists or their male allies, about women talking?