Expats or Immigrants?

[Letsleepingfrogslie]

Uurrgh! Seen this too many times and it bugs me.

Apparently every British person is an expat in another country (though I hardly hear that said about those in the U.S) but other people are always classed as immigrants in the UK.

Even uncle Bob and auntie Sue who're retired and have emigrated gone to live in rural Spain, soak in the sun and drink all day are expats but those who've moved to this country are just immigrants?

Have just googled meaning of expat and it says "A person who lives outside their native country". Funnily enough, the example is of a "British expat". In that case, those who call every family member living in another country 'expat' are correct but it also means every so called immigrant is an expat then? So why do we call them immigrants, not expats? Is there something so special about us that we can't use the word immigrant to describe ourselves or family members who've emigrated to another country to live?

On another hand, I always thought 'Expat' described those who are in a country solely to work (Think British employee working in a company's branch in a different country). They're not there to "live" and the UK is their base, not the country they work in. They're on working visas, have no other ties to that other country besides just working there, living in company-owned flats, etc but this isn't what I see when people throw the word expat around especially here on MN (although from google, they're correctly using the word).

A lot of "immigrants" fit this description too (working visas, here to work and their country is their base) but since they're from elsewhere, they also get lumped in the 'lowly immigrant' category.

So what is it? Immigrants or Expats or different categories depending on where you're from, socio-economic class, etc?

What am I missing?

I always thought expats were retired immigrants were workers?

I’m not sure if this will make sense but I do it this way.
If I was referring to a Brit in Spain, I’d call them an expat because we’re both British.
If I was referring to someone from France who’d moved here, I’d call them an immigrant because I am English and they are French and I’m talking within the context of my home country and them moving into it.
If I lived in Dubai, I’d call myself an expat of Britain to other British people because I’ve left the shared country but to emiratis, I’d call myself an immigrant because I am talking within the context of me going into their country
I’m not sure if that’s correct or not grammatically or anything but that’s how I use it.

It means ex patriot of the country your from, nothing to do with class. When you leave your home country you emigrate and when you arrive to live in a new country you immigrate. Nothing to do again with class.

It’s a very interesting topic I have read lots about. It seems to me like immigrants from rich countries are called/call themselves ‘expats’, whereas immigrants from poorer countries are just called ‘immigrants’. This is what I have noticed, being a highly educated immigrant from a rich country. A lot of people in my situation call themselves ‘expats’ even though they’re not - an expat is someone whose company sends them abroad for a work contract. An immigrant is someone who moves to another country to find a job, whatever their situation is.

This article is good
www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170119-who-should-be-called-an-expat

Expat has an air of temporary about it. Those who went abroad with their families for work, in the days of empire. Still seen in places such as Dubai, where you will be expected to leave at some point.

Immigrant is permanent, you expect to and may remain forever. At least as far as language usage goes.

In my experience, there’s definitely been some snobbery about it. I’ve been in the U.K. for 20 years and never have I met anyone from a rich country calling themselves ‘immigrant’, even if they were waiters or shop assistants. They all call themselves ‘expats’. The media also use that term to talk about, say, a German or Australian immigrant. However, a Romanian or African neuro scientist will be called ‘immigrant’ because they’re from poorer countries.

I think there are a couple of different things going on here.

I would agree with you on the definitions, I always thought 'Expat' described those who ... and, yes, many immigrants to this country would describe themselves as expats but also, if you speak to many of them a large proportion are actually intending to settle here in the long term and so we would correctly describe them as immigrants.

The one big difference is that "expat" is usually applied to those that you are part of the same group as (eg same nationality) and "immigrant" is usually used for those that are "other" *eg a different nationality).

So, when speaking amongst fellow Brits and talking about someone working abroad you would use the word expat but when talking about people coming to this country you would be more likely to refer to them as an immigrant unless you knew otherwise.

This doesn't only happen in English but also other languages as well, for example in Spanish you have "expatriada" (and "expatriado" for men) and also "inmigrante" and these two words are used in the same way as the English words are used.

To your point on uncle Bob and auntie Sue living in retirement in Spain or France, I think that perhaps in that situation they possibly don't feel that they have emigrated either at all (due to being until now in the EU) or permanently and will eventually go home at some point and don't see themselves as emigrants.

On the other hand, I know a number of people that have emigrated to either Australia, Canada or the USA permanently and they really do see themselves as emigrants and not "expats" in that they have genuinely made their home in those countries. Although you do also get actual expats in those countries as well.

So you will get Brits in those countries who see themselves as emigrants as well as those that see themselves as expats. In the EU things have been different since we joined as there was no need to get a settlement visa to live abroad and perhaps people didn't see themselves as actually moving abroad. Either that or they always planned to return "home" at some point - I know a number of very elderly that have returned to the UK after spending many years of their retirement in Spain or Portugal - and so never saw themselves as emigrating permanently

@Rainbows Do you mean 'expatriates'?

@Crumpets Exactly!

I have heard this a lot but to me the difference is a lack of permanence. Expats on the gulf and many other places will never have the right to stay even if they wanted. Immigrants are people who move permanently.

Expat has a very specific definition. If you work for a company based in your home country, which then sends you abroad for a limited time, you have been expatriated. You are in that country with a job in the U.K. to go back to. If you’ve moved permanently, you’re an immigrant.

I agree with @crumpets: people tend to use the word ‘immigrant’ to refer to people from poorer countries, and ‘expat’ for those who come from richer countries. I’m not suggesting that’s a formal definition, but it’s my experience. It’s simple prejudice. I’ve lived in the Middle East for years, and Brits are pretty much exclusively referred to as expats here.

Eg I lived in the gulf where all the foreigners called themselves Expats. I also lived in Australia where the same people doing the same job generally called themselves immigrants.

In general, I view British expat as discussing their relationship to the UK - they're British expatriates/emmigrants. They'd only be viewed as immigrants in relation to the country they're in. So, from the example, they're immigrants to Spain, but could still be British expats.

Years back, expat generally referred to someone who kept close tied to their birth country, visited often and didn't see themselves as a permanent residents while immigrants built closer ties to their new country, had few ties from they're from, and saw themselves and worked towards being permanent residents and citizenship. Within some US immigrant groups, expat was a bit of a joke and some US expats derided immigrants as traitors - I've been called that a few times.

Now, at least with the Americans abroad communities I'm in, I've noticed the latter have become expats/expatriates and what was once expats are now homelanders - all the same traits plus viewed by others as caring more about the US than they do their country of residency. The joke has taken new forms with FATCA and related shite.

It's all semantics, and there probably is some class involved in the discussion, but in general I'd stick to which perspective I was discussing or what someone prefers to be called. Brits abroad are British expats, that's what they have in common, immigrants to the UK are immigrants, it's what we have in common even if we have very different attitudes about it and our countries of origin. I prefer to be called an immigrant, especially as I haven't been to the US since W Bush's first term. Being called an American expat would be weird for me.

@Letsleepingfrogslie THANK. YOU.

I have always wondered what the difference was. I assumed ethnicity and race played a part.

@Longtalljosie That's how I would define it but apparently, it's used differently and every Brit is (informally) an expat in another country regardless of their work/immigration status.

@GnusSitOnCanoes That's been my observation too, which is why I never hear another Brit call themselves expats in the US (and possibly Australia, Canada, etc).

I always though expat was temporary.
I've lived overseas and would describe myself as an expat as I was there temporarily for work or education.
If I was an immigrant I would expect to be there permanently, or for a good ten plus years.

Imho Brit abroad will be an expat to other Brits. Same way I would be an expat to my former fellow countrymen.
The Brit abroad would be an immigrant to their current fellow countrymen same way like I am an immigrant to my current fellow countrymen in UK.

Expat/emigrant is out
Immigrant is in

My brother lives and works in the US. His status is "legal alien".

legal alien

I kind of wish I had that officially😂

I think of expays as temporary and able to still tap into the benefits of their home country. Rather than someone fighting for permanent leave to remain and not coming from a country who could help them in difficult times. I've seen 'no recourse to public funds' lifted many times, whereas an expat will either return home, or be funded by their home country.

I call myself a second generation immigrant. Even though my GF didn't remain in the UK.

That legal/illegal alien thing makes me cringe so hard! Like they're sub human.

I hate the use of Alien, it dehumanises the person.

I think it could be demonstrated by this -

Immigrant - comes to the country, lives and works, pays taxes, etc.

British expat - comes to country, lives, doesn't pay tax, then nips back to the UK for free NHS treatment without mentioning that they don't qualify for it.

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned Yes I have only noticed white Brits use that term. Never seen any other British ethnicity use it. Not saying it hasn't been done, just never noticed.

I'm British, live abroad and consider myself an expat rather than an immigrant for two reasons:

1. as PP have mentioned, I came here for work. Technically, I'm actually employed by the local subsidiary of my firm - a globally operating corporation - but I was head hunted for the job I'm in straight out of London.

2. I view my life here as having an expiry date. I've settled down here, know which school my child will attend when she gets to the age, have friends here and a home. But I also know that I might return when I resign or get fired - or, at the very latest, when I retire. I'm not planning on dying in this country. I've studied the language and the local customs. I do my best to fit in. But I'm not looking to apply for citizenship or remain here once I'm done working here.

My one and only concern is that, as far as DD is concerned, this is the only home she's ever known. She's got both a British and an Irish passport due to who her parents are - but apart from my influence, she's Swiss for all intents and purposes. Not uprooting her may be the reason why I might consider staying until she's old enough to stay behind by herself if she so chooses.