Expats or Immigrants?

[Letsleepingfrogslie]

Uurrgh! Seen this too many times and it bugs me.

Apparently every British person is an expat in another country (though I hardly hear that said about those in the U.S) but other people are always classed as immigrants in the UK.

Even uncle Bob and auntie Sue who're retired and have emigrated gone to live in rural Spain, soak in the sun and drink all day are expats but those who've moved to this country are just immigrants?

Have just googled meaning of expat and it says "A person who lives outside their native country". Funnily enough, the example is of a "British expat". In that case, those who call every family member living in another country 'expat' are correct but it also means every so called immigrant is an expat then? So why do we call them immigrants, not expats? Is there something so special about us that we can't use the word immigrant to describe ourselves or family members who've emigrated to another country to live?

On another hand, I always thought 'Expat' described those who are in a country solely to work (Think British employee working in a company's branch in a different country). They're not there to "live" and the UK is their base, not the country they work in. They're on working visas, have no other ties to that other country besides just working there, living in company-owned flats, etc but this isn't what I see when people throw the word expat around especially here on MN (although from google, they're correctly using the word).

A lot of "immigrants" fit this description too (working visas, here to work and their country is their base) but since they're from elsewhere, they also get lumped in the 'lowly immigrant' category.

So what is it? Immigrants or Expats or different categories depending on where you're from, socio-economic class, etc?

What am I missing?

This is obviously an emotive issue, but I've personally always assumed that "expat" meant that an individual is happy to return to their home country at some point, whereas an "immigrant" is hoping/intending to permanently settle in the new country. Of course, "expats" can become "immigrants" and vice versa.

I'm not sure it's a racial issue, but I think economics does play a role. DH's ancestors (white Europeans from various countries) "emigrated" to the US for economic opportunities and I know at least one was recruited by a American company for his skills. They had no ambitions to return to their birthplaces, so I regard them as immigrants. If they'd intended to return to their home countries, I suppose the term "expats" could be applied?

Perhaps retirees in Spain consider themselves "expats" because they've spent the majority of their lives elsewhere and will only have a few years in their host country? I dunno really.

Perhaps retirees in Spain consider themselves "expats" because they've spent the majority of their lives elsewhere and will only have a few years in their host country?

If by that, you mean 'Will come rushing back to the UK for free treatment on the NHS as soon as things start looking a little expensive', and then going back to the villa immediately afterwards, yep, they're expats - in their minds.

Others (like the government) would call them Health Tourists.

An immigrant is someone who comes to a country to live permanently. An emigrant is someone who goes to a country to live permanently. An expat is someone who currently lives outside their native country. So all immigrants and emigrants are expats, but not all expats are immigrants/emigrants and one person can be all three simultaneously. Until they become citizens in their new country they are foreigners and aliens, and they may be legal or illegal.

UK immigrants" isn't specific enough

Why isn't it? Genuinely asking.

@jcyclops I agree.

Will be referring to our "immigrants" as expats from now on.

*UK immigrants" isn't specific enough

Why isn't it? Genuinely asking.*

Because we're trying to refer (in this case) to each other. All US expats in the UK are UK immigrants, but not all UK immigrants are US expats.

For instance, in my work we offer a specific service just for US expats in the UK. This thread has me wondering how we could reword our marketing materials to scrap "expat", but without introducing more than one word in its place! I guess we could just say "US citizens living in the UK", and sometimes we do to avoid repetition. But if we scrapped "expat" we would lose that privilege (not to mention tank our SEO).

Hello Romanian expats, Italian expats, Kenyan expats, Polish expats, Nigerian expats, Indian expats, Ghanian expats, Spanish expats, Ukranian expats, etc.

I understand it as : If you are working abroad temporarily (e.g. a Polish labourer) you are an expat. If you settle somewhere permanently (e.g. Brits retiring to Spain) you are an immigrant.

@jcyclops Quite!

Will be referring to our "immigrants" as expats from now on.

Ah, but it only works if you're from the same place!

Ha @ElephantsAlltheWayDown I understand now. No need to change it though.

For me anyone who is the same nationality as you but has left the country to live somewhere else is an expat and people from another country moving in are immigrants.
So I am an immigrant in the UK but back home I would be referred to as an expat (well the equivalent word in my language).

Fyi I know its not the right definition but its the one I would use.

but it only works if you're from the same place! grin

But that's the cop out. Didn't see the meaning where it mentioned you must only use it for those of the same nationality. I think this is where some people wish to never use it to identify others with.

They are infact expats and it won't matter if others say they are, in my opinion.

We were expats in Belgium, as firstly we were posted there by HM Forces, so employed by HMG, and knew we would return home. We lived in MOD accommodation, were paid by the MOD, health care was provided either by the MOD directly, or paid for by MOD if we had to use a local hospital. Tax was paid in the UK.

The second time was on a fixed term contract, and there was no intention to remain after the contract ended. We kept our UK house, and moved back last year.

To be clear, yes they are also immigrants but I could just as easily call them either. Eg. I could say either a UK immigrant or a Polish expat. Infact 'Polish Expat' makes it more specific (as you mentioned in your case) because it identifies where they're from and shows they've come to work. Unless they don't wish to be identified as such, of course.

....Or those who are actually not immigrants (they've only come to work, not live permanently) should be called [insert country] expats.

So still following my example: Polish Expats, etc

We were classed as immigrants when we lived and worked in NZ.

I live overseas and consider myself an expat - pretty much all foreigners here do. This is because I am on a temporary work assignment overseas and will return to the UK at the end of it. My family and I are entitled to live here and pay tax, but we don't receive any local benefits. If I planned to stay here forever, or try and become a permanent resident, then I would consider myself an immigrant.

Going forward, I'm going to style myself an expat-immigrant-alien, to cover all the bases. Just kidding.

Expat is from the Latinex patriaandex patriate.
Patria was a very specific empire at that time (with a widely held belief that everyone outside is a barbarian), and sure it had very similar contemporary connotations too.

Engineering site work

This is not a blue collar job.

It goes back to the empire and people thinking other countries should be thrilled to have Brits living amongst them

I’m not British and still use the term expat for myself. Not everything in this world is related to empire 🙄

I think the terms are applied incorrectly a lot of the time, but "expat" comes from the Latin "out of one's own country" and the "patria" word for one's own country has the same root as "patriot" carrying a strong implication that the country in question has one's loyalty and duty to that country which one is now away from.

an immigrant is one who is building a new life in the new country, whose children and grandchildren are being brought up as citizens of that country with no different treatment (eg going to local schools rather than "international" schools or being sent back to the home country for boarding school) AND no intention of ever moving "back home".

expats include those working abroad temporary who have every intention of going back to their own country when their work is done, and do not want to acquire citizenship of their country of residence (if they will retire in the country where they have been working, or are making any attempt to qualify for citizenship of their country of residence, they are immigrants in the context of their new country or emigrants in the context of their former country). expats also include those who retire to a different country if the source of their retirement income remains in their home country, they are making no attempt to gain citizenship status and continue to regard their original country (where their extended families remain) as "their country".

when people who qualify as "expats" are called immigrants and vice versa I think the logic behind that mis-naming has its roots in racism more than anything, based on an intrinsic privileged assumption that of course somewhere naice like England would be somewhere that anyone would love to come home to, whereas obviously anyone who comes to a more developed/richer country from a 3rd world/developing country must regard their "escape" from their original country as permanent as who would ever want to downgrade again after having achieved an upgrade?

I’m an immigrant here in the US. We definitely use the term expat here amongst ourselves (there are many “British expats” Facebook groups, for example). Interestingly, I am not seen by the locals as an immigrant. Unfortunately, the word “immigrant” here has a very negative connotation and many assume there is something illegal going on. I’m fully legal here and permanent. My husband is an American and this is where we are spending the rest of our lives. People here assume because I am white, speak English and have a very well-paid job in a specialist field that I’m not an immigrant.

*Engineering site work

This is not a blue collar job.*

It is. It's construction.