Expats or Immigrants?

[Letsleepingfrogslie]

Uurrgh! Seen this too many times and it bugs me.

Apparently every British person is an expat in another country (though I hardly hear that said about those in the U.S) but other people are always classed as immigrants in the UK.

Even uncle Bob and auntie Sue who're retired and have emigrated gone to live in rural Spain, soak in the sun and drink all day are expats but those who've moved to this country are just immigrants?

Have just googled meaning of expat and it says "A person who lives outside their native country". Funnily enough, the example is of a "British expat". In that case, those who call every family member living in another country 'expat' are correct but it also means every so called immigrant is an expat then? So why do we call them immigrants, not expats? Is there something so special about us that we can't use the word immigrant to describe ourselves or family members who've emigrated to another country to live?

On another hand, I always thought 'Expat' described those who are in a country solely to work (Think British employee working in a company's branch in a different country). They're not there to "live" and the UK is their base, not the country they work in. They're on working visas, have no other ties to that other country besides just working there, living in company-owned flats, etc but this isn't what I see when people throw the word expat around especially here on MN (although from google, they're correctly using the word).

A lot of "immigrants" fit this description too (working visas, here to work and their country is their base) but since they're from elsewhere, they also get lumped in the 'lowly immigrant' category.

So what is it? Immigrants or Expats or different categories depending on where you're from, socio-economic class, etc?

What am I missing?

@Brexpat Your situation is what I consider as expat although in some cases I know, for those with family, there's usually an expat community (where they live, schools for children, shops, etc) and they're pretty much isolated within that community most of the time, venturing out often to explore but returning to the gated communities. I know this exact situation isn't so for every expat - different situations in different countries I believe.

@Letsleepingfrogslie - every British person overseas is an expat? Have you done a study? If so, that’s a big sample you have.

I’m sure it is not the correct definition but I would use expat for someone coming from a country of similar wealth than their destination country / use immigrant for someone coming from a poorer country.
Also an expat has moved for a specific work opportunity / an immigrant has moved either specifically to go away from their country or to get opportunities they couldn’t get there.

...that I've seen/heard of/from....that I can remember.

@CayrolBaaaskin have added the above to clarify.

Well I'm an immigrant here in the UK and it took me some time to realise that when daily mail, sun, express etc were talking about immigrants they're talking about me too......

I would use ‘expat’ to mean someone who had relocated to a foreign country for a designated period, which could be anything from a couple of months to several years. The key point is that the residence is temporary, and the intention is to return home when it ends.

An immigrant is someone who moves to live permanently in another country. British people who move to Spain when they retire are immigrants if they have no intention or plan to move back to the U.K.

I'm a US citizen living in the UK. To other Americans, I'm an expat. To British people, I'm an immigrant. If a Brit moved to America, to other British people they would be an expat. To Americans, they would be an immigrant. It's the difference between the relationship you have to your home country vs the relationship you have to your new country.

@ElephantsAlltheWayDown that's exactly how I always understood it and so never got that angst about it

@Letsleepingfrogslie I mean exactly what I wrote. Stop being pedantic and stop trying to make everything racist. It’s frankly boring.

My favourite example was when someone on the Irish radio, discussing the issue of illegal Irish immigration to the US, used an expression "undocumented expats".

Expat = white
Immigrants = everyone else

(Disclaimer- im an immigrant)

Eg I lived in the gulf where all the foreigners called themselves Expats.

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I think all the south Asians building the mega apartments in the gulf don't call themselves expats... 🧐

@RainbowGlittersandSparkles Wow calm down. Never heard/seen ex Patriots instead of expatriates so I asked because I thought autocorrect changed what you wrote. Mine kept changing Expats to Experts.

You seem touchy, so not bothering with the other stuff you wrote.

I agree with the temporary/permanent definition being correct but think British people think white people are expats and everyone else is an immigrant.

A Venezuelan working in Baku is an expat. A Norwegian working in Borneo is an expat. A guy from Aberdeen working in Stavanger is an expat. A Jordanian working in Louisiana is an expat. But if she gets a green card? She is on track to being an immigrant. An Expat is not a citizen. It's a temporary state. And it doesn't apply only to Brits. To think it does is curiously parochial.

If you are from a poor country living in a rich country, you are an immigrant. It doesn't matter you only intend to be there a few years. You are inferior, you must try to integrate, learn the local language and be extra nice to all the locals because they are allowing you to live there.

If you're from a rich country i.e. UK, you are an expat. You are superior and don't have to attempt to integrate or lower yourself to local standards or, god forbid, call yourself an immigrant. Your host country is lucky to have you.

It’s just grammar. Based on the fact that Emigration is the act of leaving a resident country or place of residence with the intent to settle elsewhere. Conversely, immigration describes the movement of people into one country from another.

When you are in country X, everyone from outside country X living in country X has immigrated in so is therefore an immigrant.
When you are in country X, everyone from country X living in another country had emigrated out so is therefore an expat or emigre.

So, if you are in Spain, and a British person comes IN to Spain, that person is an immigrant to the people in Spain. But that same person, to a person in Britain has EXITED Britian so is an expat or emigre to Spain.

If you are from a poor country living in a rich country, you are an immigrant

Your ignorance is astonishing. Tell that to the migrant workers from Africa and Asia in China and the Middle East. Educate yourself.

@foodandwine89 - what do you base that on?

Yep

Yes I have only noticed white Brits use that term. Never seen any other British ethnicity use it

Maybe it’s just a reflection of your circle?

I think all the south Asians building the mega apartments in the gulf don't call themselves expats...

I don’t know what they call themselves, but they are considered migrant workers as per the Gulf States (I unfortunately had to live in one once). They cannot be immigrants because it is not permitted. At some point, they usually have to leave. There’s no sense they can socially belong as a local iyswim

There is definitely a class divide between migrant worker and expat; I knew many Indian expats, they had white collar jobs and considered themselves expats. While they may or may not go ‘home’ they will never become local as that’s not culturally possible.

There are many, many countries worldwide where you cannot really reside permanently unless you marry a local. So you would be a temporary worker that would be required to leave the country once your contract is finished or terminated.

It’s just grammar

@PlanDeRaccordement

Nope. It is not. Your ignorance is on display. It's the difference between a permanent residence and a temporary residence, usually dependent on employment Example? African workers in China. They are not immigrants. Example? Venezuelan workers in Baku.

When you are in country X, everyone from outside country X living in country X has immigrated

What utter nonsense. Do you understand the meaning of immigrated?

It literally has nothing to do with poor/rich or race/ethnicity. It is all English grammar about whether the person is coming IN to or going OUT of your country.