Expats or Immigrants?

[Letsleepingfrogslie]

Uurrgh! Seen this too many times and it bugs me.

Apparently every British person is an expat in another country (though I hardly hear that said about those in the U.S) but other people are always classed as immigrants in the UK.

Even uncle Bob and auntie Sue who're retired and have emigrated gone to live in rural Spain, soak in the sun and drink all day are expats but those who've moved to this country are just immigrants?

Have just googled meaning of expat and it says "A person who lives outside their native country". Funnily enough, the example is of a "British expat". In that case, those who call every family member living in another country 'expat' are correct but it also means every so called immigrant is an expat then? So why do we call them immigrants, not expats? Is there something so special about us that we can't use the word immigrant to describe ourselves or family members who've emigrated to another country to live?

On another hand, I always thought 'Expat' described those who are in a country solely to work (Think British employee working in a company's branch in a different country). They're not there to "live" and the UK is their base, not the country they work in. They're on working visas, have no other ties to that other country besides just working there, living in company-owned flats, etc but this isn't what I see when people throw the word expat around especially here on MN (although from google, they're correctly using the word).

A lot of "immigrants" fit this description too (working visas, here to work and their country is their base) but since they're from elsewhere, they also get lumped in the 'lowly immigrant' category.

So what is it? Immigrants or Expats or different categories depending on where you're from, socio-economic class, etc?

What am I missing?

@BovaryX I'm aware there are non western expats in other places, as there should be. I'm only speaking of the UK and general western countries (US, etc) and the practice here. I don't know anywhere else that well to compare or state what they do.

Does anybody else call themselves expats in the UK (who are not from the UK) among people of the same nationality within the UK or call people of their nationality anywhere else expats?

You mean besides those from Western countries? In other words, likely non native English speakers?

It's hard to discuss the connotations of an English word as used by non native English speakers, especially when they're speaking to other people from their home country (again, likely not in English!). They likely have very similar words, but connotations are rarely exact in translation... it just kind of blunts whatever point is being made about the use of "expat".

@Letsleepingfrogslie

I'm aware there are non western expats in other places, as there should be. I'm only speaking of the UK and general western countries

Why are you only speaking of the UK if you are trying to understand the difference between 'expat' and 'immigrant?' Are you being deliberately parochial? Do you not understand why a Venezuelan working on a visa in Baku is an expat?

@ElephantsAlltheWayDown That makes sense, I see what you mean.

If you are from a poor country living in a rich country, you are an immigrant. It doesn't matter you only intend to be there a few years. You are inferior, you must try to integrate, learn the local language and be extra nice to all the locals because they are allowing you to live there.

Well. I might be from a "poor country" but my NHS is better🤷🏻 and that's what counts imo...

I think loads are forgetting the term migrant. That's temporary one. Immigrant is for longer (or forever).

I considered myself immigrant, a permanent one, even through Brexit. But god. These"omg woe me" and stuff around corona made us reconsider. It's not that often you expect your families from "poorer" countries calling you saying you should repatriate because UK isn't safe.

Fucking shame on you. I used to love it here. The politness, world food at your finger...

Whiny bunch of little whiny bithches this nation is. Very sadly...

Yet again the @ElephantsAlltheWayDown is right.

I must say you do rely speak, wrote, so well making sense. Thank you for being here!

I live in Portugal, I call myself an immigrant. There are lots of brits here who call themselves expats - usually retired and have made minimal efforts to learn the language.

@BovaryX First of all, I already wrote why, did you deliberately not include that in your quote?

Secondly, did you deliberately misunderstand the point I've been making? I'm not trying to understand the difference between expat and immigrant, we both seem to be saying something similar in that regard.

I'm only trying to understand why the title seems to be placed on some and not on others in the UK, by the british. What has that got to do with what other countries do? Are you deliberately misunderstanding that?

I'm not trying to understand the difference between expat and immigrant

@Letsleepingfrogslie

Then what is the point of your OP? When you ask for the distinction between immigrant and expat? The explanation can't be limited to one country. To do so makes it meaningless. As well as parochial.

Again, Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms Parochial, you've deliberately missed the answer to your question in the reply you quoted. Kindly reread, thanks.

Thank goodness you're talking sense on the thread @ElephantsAlltheWayDown because most of the rest of it is absolute cobblers.

Unless I read this wrong, I took this comment as sarcasm. Didn't think they meant it as a personal statement or did you?@foodandwine89

*If you are from a poor country living in a rich country, you are an immigrant. It doesn't matter you only intend to be there a few years. You are inferior, you must try to integrate, learn the local language and be extra nice to all the locals because they are allowing you to live there.

If you're from a rich country i.e. UK, you are an expat. You are superior and don't have to attempt to integrate or lower yourself to local standards or, god forbid, call yourself an immigrant. Your host country is lucky to have you.*

FFS.

You can be both at the same time.

How hard can it be?

On another hand, I always thought 'Expat' described those who are in a country solely to work

@Letsleepingfrogslie

This quote is from your OP. You have had the distinction explained to you. The Venezuelan guy in Baku is an expat. The Jordanian guy in Sarawak is an expat. The Kenyan in Kuwait is an expat. Are you so parochial you can't understand why? Are you pretending you didn't ask the question?

Are you deliberately using the word parochial over and over again? I'm sorry but I'm just laughing now each time I see it and can't take you seriously anymore. Could make a drinking game out of it.

Seriously though, I agree with you if that isn't clear. That's exactly what the quote means. We agree.

@Letsleepingfrogslie

I am using the word parochial because you are fixated on one country and ignoring myriad examples of expats from and in myriad countries beyond the West. Parochial is an accurate description of your refusal to look beyond your back door.

Ok. I've looked, I agree. Sorry I didn't include other countries. We both agree on our interpretation of the word expat.

But I now understand it to mean more than that.

(Creeps back in)

Expat is from the Latin ex patria and ex patriate. It has no time limit specified, it is just outside the father (home) land. No particular values could be attached to it, as it was simply describing the state of not living in the country you originally came from.

Immigrant has been argued to have been created as a term in the 1820s by Webster to identify somebody coming from outside the country with the intent of settling there permanently, developed using the already known word migrate/migrant (also based in Latin). So was used to 'other' people - they were outsiders coming to intrude/take up space/forever.

No wonder it's so important for the people the OP references to describe themselves as expats, not immigrants. There's nearly 200 years of meaning charging the term.

I personally believe that it is snobbery and not anything to do with temporary or permanency.

I lived in Spain for 4 years. I know many 'expats' who have lived there for many years with no intention if leaving and call themselves expats. They are mainly white middle class British people.

I referred to myself as an immigrant because that it was what I was.

" Yes I have only noticed white Brits use that term. Never seen any other British ethnicity use it. Not saying it hasn't been done, just never noticed."

It's an international term, used by many nationalities. It has direct translations in some other European languages and is also used by expats from other countries living in Britain.
The idea that it's a word only for British people, or even only for white people is bollocks.

"Expat has a very specific definition. If you work for a company based in your home country, which then sends you abroad for a limited time, you have been expatriated. You are in that country with a job in the U.K. to go back to. If you’ve moved permanently, you’re an immigrant."

Not quite (or not only). Expat is used not only for people on an official expat contract as you mention - posted or transferred or seconded workers. It can also be people on a local contract but whose immigration is not likely to be permanent.

"I referred to myself as an immigrant because that it was what I was."

But you were also an expat.

When I lived abroad I was both an immigrant and an expat and used both depending on the situation.

"Expat is from the Latin ex patria and ex patriate. It has no time limit specified"

It does have implications of time in current usage.

In relation to not having the exact same meaning as the considerably more specific immigrant, yes. It still doesn't actually have any time element in the actual words.

I personally believe that it is snobbery and not anything to do with temporary or permanency.

I'm not sure it's snobbery, but certainly there's an element of romance to the term.

But it's also useful. My fellow Americans in the UK all call each other US expats. We can't call ourselves "US immigrants" because we aren't, "UK immigrants" isn't specific enough, and "UK immigrants who originally came from the US" just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily.

@OmgThereAreNoPlanesAboveMeNow

Aww, shucks. Thank you!