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AIBU?

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Original poster

Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

388 replies

ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 12:05

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

OP posts:
Ihaveoflate · 23/05/2020 14:36

That would make me very angry as a parent, and I say that that as an ex-teacher with 14 years primary experience and every respect for how tough the job is.

Agree with pp - it lacks basic humanity and reflects poorly on the school.

Butterbeeeen · 23/05/2020 14:36

I work in a school and have changed children many many times. I think previous posters are right in that it's to do with Covid and distance rather than any law stating school staff cant change children. Still absolutely awful for the child though. This is why I'm dreading reopening.

justasking111 · 23/05/2020 14:37

What happens now if a child vomits, is that left on the class room floor until a ppe clad person comes along, does the room have to be evacuated?

saraclara · 23/05/2020 14:44

sadly the teacher would have been prevented by law from helping your daughter remove her underwear.

Total rubbish, as is @HoppingPavlova's post.
No way would we leave a child in that state, and my school was massively hot on safeguarding both pupils and staff.
I appreciate that covid will have complicated things, but even so, was your daughter not provided with wipes and spare pants to make herself as comfortable as she could, OP?

nowayhose · 23/05/2020 14:45

What a horrible time for your poor DD :(

Unfortunately, the teacher CAN refuse to deal with this kind of thing, as it's NOT classed as teaching. They can also be accused of 'interfering' with a child by parents :( if they ask the child to undress and clean them due to the area they are cleaning :(

They CAN get around this by having another staff member present as a chaperone, but they can also refuse and simply wait for a parent, as this avoids any risk of being accused of something horrible.

sauvignonblancplz · 23/05/2020 14:46

More info needed OP. Did the staff just leave her or did they try to help from a distance ?
What did they say when you collected her?

I’m very torn here. So the child sat for 45 mins. What if the teacher had helped- no PPE, already anxious. She’s now worried about catching something & bringing something back to her own family .

There’s a much bigger picture here.

RainbowGlittersandSparkles · 23/05/2020 14:49

I had an accident at school back in the day. My dad has to come and change me as teachers aren't allowed snd this was back in the late 80’s

Teachers can’t leave a classroom of children to spend the 15/20 mins it might take to clean up a distressed soiled child.

nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:51

They CAN get around this by having another staff member present as a chaperone, but they can also refuse and simply wait for a parent, as this avoids any risk of being accused of something horrible.

Any early years teacher who would see a child sitting in their own mess whilst they wait for a parent to arrive should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

DinoGreen · 23/05/2020 14:57

I think this is so awful 😢 my DS is 4 and starting school in September, he has the occasional accident still. He’s at a private day nursery at the moment (well not right now, obviously, but pre-lockdown) and they are obviously much more set up for this sort of thing than a school, but I’d still expect him to be helped when he’s in reception. I don’t think it’s remotely acceptable to leave a child sitting in their own shit for 45 minutes, Covid or no covid. Parents might not be able to get there for even longer than that.

nokidshere · 23/05/2020 14:57

Teachers can’t leave a classroom of children to spend the 15/20 mins it might take to clean up a distressed soiled child

Well lots of schools have toilets in or very near reception so they wouldn't necessarily have to leave the room. However, that's really immaterial, there should be a clear and immediate action plan as to how accidents can be dealt with. Not 'oh we will just leave them until someone else does it'.

As for it being covid related, it makes no difference. If you are in an establishment that has children who may need help then the 'how do we deal with this event' should have been one of the first things on the list of things to do. Bodily fluids is right up there at number 1 on the list.

ShouldWeChangeTheBulb · 23/05/2020 14:58

What if it had taken you 2 hours to get there? How long would they leave a child soiled and distressed?
I would be livid.

locked2020 · 23/05/2020 15:02

How horrid for her. I'd be livid. It's unkind and humiliating. It's not beyond the realms of imagination that a four year old could have an accident, so there should be a policy in place for dealing with this. I had similar with a DC at nursery, except it was 2 hours in total (I was in a meeting with no reception and had to dash from a client office and commute back when I got the message). I was so upset for him and disgusted with the setting - their policy of course said how they would deal with accidents - it wasn't followed.

LemonPudding · 23/05/2020 15:04

Still no answer to the question of what should the teacher do if she was on her own.

She cannot leave the rest of the class to deal with one child. If there is no TA then she's stuck. No need to name call and say she should be ashamed. She probably felt awful.

All you calling her out tell us what she should have done. Easy to throw names and insults. Less easy to offer a solution.

SandieCheeks · 23/05/2020 15:10

@LemonPudding - call on another member of staff? The teacher can't have been completely isolated with no other staff available in the school or that is a huge safeguarding risk.

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 15:10

This was last week. Small number of children in school ie 9. 3 members of staff present. Masks aprons etc on school site. She was left there till I arrived which was as soon as I could. What worries me is how much longer would they have gone if I couldn't get there?

OP posts:
nokidshere · 23/05/2020 15:15

She cannot leave the rest of the class to deal with one child. If there is no TA then she's stuck. No need to name call and say she should be ashamed. She probably felt awful.

If there is only one person then there must be a policy on how to get help if she needs it? How would she get help if a child had a fit or an accident for instance? This isn't rocket science, it's part and parcel of working with early years. And if you can't figure out how to summon for help if you need it then you really are in the wrong job.

All you calling her out tell us what she should have done. Easy to throw names and insults. Less easy to offer a solution. She should have called for help as per their policy.

This isn't about teachers specifically. This is about early years practitioners providing proper care for the needs of the children they are working with. There is a high chance that if you are in a setting with under 5's that at some point one or more of them are going to need your help. You can't wait until that happens and then say 'oh but I was on my own so I left them dirty, bleeding to death or whatever' because I wasn't sure how to get someone to help.

scunner · 23/05/2020 15:15

Retired teacher here. Common sense, kindness and compassion must come first. Just be sure to inform a colleague want you are going to do to help child. I would have been furious if my child had been left in soiled pants until parent arrives. Infant teachers should always have a supply of gloves, aprons, wipes and fresh pants and socks. Accidents are all part of the working day.

I wasn’t always great in clearing up vomit. The tears would be running down my face as I tried to block out the smell and instinctive wrenching.
But would never have left a child without cleaning them up and making them feel comfortable.

LovingLola · 23/05/2020 15:16

Did they tell you why she was left in the toilet crying?
Was it that she refused to come out?
Or that the teacher didn’t realise what had happened?
Or that the teacher did know, decided to call you and left it at that ?

LemonPudding · 23/05/2020 15:19

@LemonPudding - call on another member of staff?

Small schools have one teacher per class and that's it. The head is often a teaching head. So no spare staff. Very common in village schools.

OP, I'm surprised at what happened and it must have been very upsetting. Before you complain ask what the policy is. If 2 teachers are required that may have been the problem. Or it could be school policy in Covid times not to change children at all. I've heard that's the case in a lot of schools.

LolaSmiles · 23/05/2020 15:29

That sounds upsetting OP.
I would contact the school, ask for their intimate care policy and see whether that was followed, or whether it couldn't be followed due to issues linked to Covid (for example, another non-school thread on here said that poo can leave airborne particles that are a transmission risk, so I can see why someone would want appropriate PPE before doing intimate care).
From there outline your concerns to the head. If they are having such young children then they need enough staff on site to adequately follow their intimate care policy. If it's a PPE issue and staff are unable to provide intimate care beyond talking a child through what to do then parents should be aware of this.
Their response will tell you what to do next.

Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 15:35

The head was on site.

OP posts:
Original poster
ShallallalAa · 23/05/2020 15:37

She has soiled herself, become distressed and didn't come out because she was so upset. Teacher was aware. No prebious issues

OP posts:
Ultrasoft · 23/05/2020 15:40

"sadly the teacher would have been prevented by law from helping your daughter remove her underwear."

What absolute codswallop.

Yes she should have been cleaned, although some schools will refuse to do it for repeated incidents, they're not actually allowed to do that. Ask to see the school policy regarding personal care.

slipperywhensparticus · 23/05/2020 15:41

I'm glad my children are in the school they are in my son had a huge accident sort of made it to the toilet but he was a mess and he stayed on the loo to contain the mess the teachers talked him through removing his soiled clothing wiping himself down and dressing in clean clothing no "hands" needed

LolaSmiles · 23/05/2020 15:43

Was there another adult able to supervise the class/leave the class to look for your DC?
Did someone go to check on her?If there were enough adults to send someone to check on her and nobody did then that's definitely a complaint.
If someone went to check on her and she refused to come out then they can't force her to come out.
If someone went to check on her but they were unable to carry out intimate care due to covid policies to avoid intimate care then I think that's probably a pandemic issue.
If someone went to check on her, she refused to come out or refused anyone in then they can't make her.
If someone went to check on her, but there weren't enough adults to carry out intimate care with the appropriate numbers of adults them that would be a complaint.

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