Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

Equip them with the training and PPE like any other caring profession and get on with it.

It’s an educational setting. If they can’t have PPE for a pandemic (where 65 school staff have died) then they won’t have it for this.
I work in a setting where we talk children through it, we take 4-11 year olds. In our T&Cs clearly states that we won’t be changing children, we’ve had a parent complain for even talking a child through it as ‘they are 5 and know how to do it’ so damned if you do damned if you don’t.

Is this related to covid? Kids with set toilet times and teachers not allowed to change/sort out kids. I have been hearing that this is how schools will need to operate under covid conditions basically.

I don't know if this has been linked to already, but:

neu.org.uk/advice/continence-and-toilet-issues-schools

The most important issue to cover is that it is not part of a teacher’s professional duties to clean up children. Such a responsibility cannot, therefore, be added to a teacher’s job description. Quite apart from the fact that such a task is not making good use of a teacher’s skills and time, there are practical issues too. Teachers cannot simply abandon their class to attend to a child who needs this kind of assistance.

Although the vast majority of teachers would assist in an emergency, as no child should be left in wet or soiled clothing, it is important that there is no expectation that routine and predictable incidents are dealt with by teachers.

Some members of support staff may have the duty of helping children with personal care written into their employment contract. However if this isn’t the case, it should not be assumed that they will undertake these duties.

Parents should be informed how their child will be dealt with, taking into account the age of the child and the extent of the soiling. Written permission should be sought from parents that they accept the procedure.

It’s awful but that is why the current guidelines being issued schools are totally ridiculous. Having only one adults per ‘bubbles’ means situations like this could happen as the adult couldn’t leave their bubble to help child. It’s why many schools have chosen to put two adults in each bubble but that has a knock on effect and they can not open as the government would like. I’m Not condoning it all just explaining what the education world is dealing with.Also the virus lasts a long tine in faeces and so PPE should be available to staff in these situations , but it isn’t always. It’s a bloody farce and it’s the children who will suffer. Makes me furious.

Of course they should have helped her. How bloody awful to leave a 4 year old distressed and alone in the toilet. Some horrible comments on here too. YA absolutely NBU. Fucking crazy.

I would hope / expect that a teacher or school nurse (do they still have those?) would help. I understand some comments of they aren't allowed to touch underwear etc but if a child is covered in poop surly acting in the best interest of the child comes first. 4 year olds are not going to understand why no one is helping them, likly get confused, upset and perhaps hinder any toilet training to boot.

If I were a teacher there I would have cleaned the child up and called a parent to forewarn them an incident had happened and what had been done or if that worried about the rules, call a parent and ask permission to clean the child up.

I'd find it unacceptable as well OP.

@cjm10979 the rules you quote and state ignorance on behalf of PP were written in October 2019. There have been changes since then, in case you haven't noticed.

Teachers teach. This is an unprecedented situation and teachers are now sort of babysitting.
I'm well aware of that thanks.I didn't say teachers should do it.

But there should be a policy for what happens if a child has an accident during this pandemic and there should be appropriate staffing on site.

There's difference between avoiding close contact when a child can easily put a plaster on and a situation where a child is distressed and unable to help themselves. School should have appropriate PPE for those having to change students or they should be making it clear to parents that they're unable to do this or they should tell parents that school policy is to supervise and guide a child to clean themselves and if this isn't possible then parents will need to come in.

It's not enough to accept young children who might have accidents on site and do nothing.

There is a policy. The policy is to phone the parents so someone can come and pick the child up and change them.

It's not enough to accept young children who might have accidents on site and do nothing.

I would imagine the alternative is no provision at all.

Read fourplastic's post.

I imagine most on this thread would be shocked to know there is no law that schools must provide first aid for the children all of the first aiders are under HSE guidance for the staff. If it has changed, it has changed very recently.

I would rather a kid be covered in shit for an hour than a teacher die of covid!

Based on people’s experiences on this thread it’s the norm for children to be cleaned up in school, so it must be due to the pandemic that on this occasion it was delegated to the parents which I think this is totally fair.

Four plastics post that says children shouldn't be left in soiled clothing?

yanbu I’d be so upset don’t think I’d send my dd back until she was moved class

I would rather a kid be covered in shit for an hour than a teacher die of covid!

And this is what happens when the government and the media whip up such a frenzy of fear.
I could never leave a child that distressed for that length of time. It's fucking cruel.
People who try to justify it should ashamed.

Read the full thing. Essentially even in normal times this is in no ones job description.

They have a policy. They followed it.

Really? You think it is the media that dictates school policies? I would imagine it is something that is designed in close cooperation with the government rather than a knee jerk reaction to media coverage.

Why can a four year old not wipe and change themselves in any event?

Covidpolice - The Early Years Foundation Stage Statutory Framework has a requirement for at least one paediatric first aid trained staff on site at all times for children in that stage.

And this is what happens when the government and the media whip up such a frenzy of fear

Well not really, I’m a nurse in A&E, I can assure you people are dying, it’s not a media frenzy of fear.

It is the guidance from the government that suggests one adults with 15 4/5 years olds is appropriate and PPE is not necessary. But also as suggested there seems to be no awareness that children that young are being asked back into school as it was suggested today that although under 5 can not be tested it didn’t matter as not many would be school. Despite nursery and reception being the prioritised year groups! Little children have accidents, share food etc

Fully aware people are dying. Also in frontline hospital healthcare.
Younger healthy people shouldn't be as scared as they are. They shouldn't be scared to help a 4 year old in distress

Younger healthy people shouldn't be as scared as they are. They shouldn't be scared to help a 4 year old in distress

How do you know there were available young and healthy people? Also it isn’t about being scared, it’s about following government and school guidelines designed to limit the virus spread. The notional young healthy teacher might not be scared to catch the virus but that would have a knock on effect beyond their own immediate health.

Younger healthy people shouldn't be as scared as they are

Tell that to the family of the 24year old who died in our intensive care unit with no medical conditions. If teachers haven’t got PPE they should not have to clean up soiled children. No one in any profession should be dealing with bodily fluids without full protective equipment.

OP states

small number of children in school ie 9. 3 members of staff present. Masks aprons etc on school site

and yet the child was left alone, upset, in distress for nearly an hour.

Aprons and masks...so no gloves so not full PPE?!

So yes, call the parents, not safe for staff.