Child left for 45 mins in own poo??

[ShallallalAa]

My dc aged 4 was left for 45 mins at school having pooed herself (I am a first response worker BTW and dp was 2 hours away)
She was left in the loo covered in her own poo. I left immediately and got there and left colleagues on the ward.
Should she have been changed or helped to clean herself up by a staff member?
She was extremely distressed by the time I got there.

My kids go to school/nursery with spare clothes, you would be surprised by how many kids don't. We don't have many spare staff and often sacrifice 1:1 support so someone can run around school finding spare clothes, when found they are rarely returned. Most often staff buy spare pants and socks, but it isn't anyone but the parents job to do this. Perhaps all children should come with spare clothes because too often we get grief from parents for having to use lost property clothes, not clean or too big/small.
Due to covid all lost property has been cleared out, part of preparing our school for a hub. So we would have no spares to loan to a child just now.

Whilst I wouldn't leave a child sitting alone upset in a toilet, if our policy was hands off then i would talk the child through cleaning themselves ensuring they had what I could provide to help them, we don't have wipes only toilet paper.

However we have to be so careful before putting hands on, especially if not the normal teacher. Do you know if the child has suffered abuse? If the school policy is no personal care, then you do personal care you can't say I didn't know about the abuse as you didn't need to know. That could be you out a job and struck off from your registration body. Sonbefore making a complaint ask questions and find out what the policy is, ask if someone could have verbally supported your child to clean themselves, had you provided spare clothes, if not could they have loaned them some.

Whilst we look at this situation and think it sounds insane, who would treat a child like that, please remember there are reasons behind all policies, we may not always agree with them but find out why things were done before suggesting others should just go ahead and do something like personal care. To the poster who said they did juat this as a volunteer 🙄 you broke every safeguarding guide. You should never have been left alone with kids let alone in any situation of personal care. The school could have been in massive trouble had a parent taken that further.

@SnackSizeRaisin the fact that a four year old was left crying alone in the toilets for 45 minutes. If there were 3 teachers and 9 children, surely someone could have at least talked to the child from the doorway.

I very much doubt this actually happened to be honest. There is no way any teaching professional would leave a 4 year old unattended in a toilet for 45 mins. Most likely the person looking after her left her to get mum and being mum back in. Many a fine kids have been absolutely fine (as in not coming) and as soon as you say mummy's here I'll go get her they burst into tears. Mums then think they've been crying and distressed the whole time.

@justasking111 Her pithy response would have been "If I told you to stick your hand in a pan of boiling water, would you?"

But different. You wouldn't be at risk of loosing your job and income if you did this to yourself. If you didn't follow safeguarding policy you can be struck off and trying to get another teaching job would become basically impossible.

Although cleaning up poo is an unpleasant task it is neglectful to leave a child in that state and not at all against the law. People need to use their initiative tou cannot "hands off" when looking after a child.

Policy cannt be an excuse for not meeting a basic human need but I agree you need to know what support was offered to her.

Some of the answers here from supposed teachers / educators are awful.

No way can it be right, or endorsed by any set of rules, to leave a small child soiled & distressed. People excusing it need to take a good look at themselves.

I'm very glad it's not in any way similar practice in Ireland, I've never heard of anything even vaguely similar.

If schools can't be allowed to help a young child who has soiled themselves, either because it is 'not a suitable use of thier skills and time's ( I paraphrase on of the documents above) or because they haven't got the staff or people, and given we know that sometimes young children do have accidents, perhaps we should not be making such young children go to school.

Schools appear to be just not set up to care for young children, so either they change policies and procedures so that they are, or we dont send young children there.
We, as a society, can't say 4 year olds must go to school but that schools can't care for 4 year olds.

Oh, your poor little girl, I don't have anything helpful to say, other than I hope you get resorted out and that she is over the ordeal.

No way can it be right, or endorsed by any set of rules, to leave a small child soiled & distressed. People excusing it need to take a good look at themselves.

They are abiding by the guidelines, if you want them changed there's no point in attacking the teachers, have a go at the government who wrote the rules.

You have no idea how much trouble teachers would be in if they broke the guidelines, their jobs could be on the line. And we still don't know what actually happened.

Sorted

"if the school policy is no personal care"

A policy like this would be unlawful.

Key worker children are often being taken care of by teachers or staff who don't usually work in their year group and perhaps don't know what to do in this scenario? Key stage 2 staff are unlikely to deal with accidents in mainstream schools.

You would think most people would use common sense and sort the child out but there is paranoia about being accused of abuse.

It is really sad for the child to have been left like that

I’m amazed this is still up; I was convinced poo troll

Our school have a designated person who is trained in personal care to help children with intimate needs. Leaving her is just wrong but I have heard it done in several schools.

perhaps we should not be making such young children go to school.

This^

4 year olds just should not be going to school, they should be at nursery in my opinion.
I'm glad I'm in Scotland as my son turns 4 in July and down south would be expected to start school this year
A 5 year old has more of a chance of being able to clean themselves up with some direction than a just turned 4 year old for example.
My ds can go to the toilet by himself, wipe his bottom (occasionally needs help) and wash his hands but if he had an accident he'd be very upset and would need adult assistance.

Schools appear to be just not set up to care for young children, so either they change policies and procedures so that they are, or we dont send young children there.

This X 100.

4 year olds just should not be going to school, they should be at nursery in my opinion
I agree. There is part of me seriously considering taking a career break from teaching to home educate for the first couple of years of school. The major difficulty in doing this will be getting a place in a higher year group later on.

I would rather a kid be covered in shit for an hour than a teacher die of covid!

And this is what happens when the government and the media whip up such a frenzy of fear. I could never leave a child that distressed for that length of time. It's fucking cruel. People who try to justify it should ashamed

@Greysparkles has hit the the nail on the head. Absolutely ridiculous, unforgivable attitude.

Better own poo than someone elses

That's awful, poor little girl! I'd be speaking to the head this is totally unacceptable.

Without wanting to be too graphic surely leaving a child stumbling around crying in by the sinks covered in poo for 45 minutes is much more likely to spread germs than an adult taking control of the situation and then throughly cleaning themselves afterwards.

Threads like this talking about how schools have the minimum staff they can get away with, no school nurse, no sick room etc make me struggle to believe its a safe place to leave my child. All kids can potentially have accidents or fall ill and schools these days don't seem equipped to deal with it.

This thread has become wonderfully sensationalist.

Stumbling around covered in poo... Get a fucking grip.

If covid policies are stopping staff cleaning young children then why on Earth are the y bringing back nursery and year R-1 first.

How can a teacher change a child whilst socially distancing themselves? They can't

You cannot teach or care for a group of 4 year olds while everyone socially distances anyway, especially with the likes of the 4-5 year olds I work with, many of whom have ASN and might have no understanding of the concept.

@Canadianpancake I think you should take your own advice about getting a grip based your posts on this thread.

LipstickandEarrings

I'm in Ireland. Similar policy in my kids school. Totally hands off unless the child has a dedicated sna for personal care. Parents are phoned to come sort the child.