How the hell do I get it through my Mother’s thick skull that she is DIABETIC?!?!?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

My DM is over 70, and was diagnosed as Type 2 diabetic 10 years ago. In her case, you could call it “lifestyle diabetes”... she has been overweight my entire life, doesn’t really exercise (she has a treadmill and uses it, but it’s more of a quick gentle stroll than an actual workout) and has a terrible diet. She’s had to inject herself with medicine (not insulin, I’m not sure what it is) for about a year, possibly longer. She has to test her blood glucose and is very happy when she gets a low reading, but she does it at random when she feels like it, so I’m not entirely sure how reflective the results are of her actual state. She often says that she doesn’t think she’ll see 80/live to see my baby DS growing up/is worried she’s going to lose her sight/feet (she already has problems with both) etc etc.

From the beginning she treated it more as an inconvenience than a life threatening disease and did very little to change the habits that got her there in the first place. She blamed it on a chocolate addiction, in an I-can’t-help-it-I’m-a-chocoholic sort of way. Last year she paid a small fortune to have a hypnotherapist rid her of this chocolate addiction. And it sort of worked; she hasn’t had chocolate since. What she has done is replace it with other crap instead.

Since lockdown started I’ve been doing her shopping online for her and honestly her shopping list is alarming. A typical order would include two packs of plain hob nobs, two big tubs of full fat cottage cheese, two multipacks of hula hoops, two punnets of green grapes, three bags of fruit pastilles, three bags of wine gums, two bags of toffee popcorn, two tubs of dairylea spread, 5 bananas, two bottles of white zinfandel, 4 pints of whole milk. A few times she’s even ordered cream cakes. Oh and some Muller light Greek yogurt and maybe the odd vegetable (usually salad). This is to last a week.

But she’s really proud that she hasn’t had any chocolate .

This week, however, she has made a few changes, and she’s very pleased with herself. She’s only having the three bags of wine gums, no fruit pastilles. She hasn’t ordered hob nobs or hula hoops, but she has ordered a multipack of quavers and two very fatty cheeses (to have with the water biscuits she ordered last week).

I said that I thought she’d decided not to buy popcorn or sweets anymore, to which her response was “I’ve only bought popcorn and wine gums, not the sugary ones. No sweet biscuits or hoola hoops, and no cheese biscuits 😇 I think i’m doing quite well.”

I reminded her that there’s a crap tonne of sugar in the wine gums and popcorn (gave her the actual figures)- “Yes I know, but the injections clear most of it, and remember this is a week, not daily”

I pointed out that the point of the injections isn’t to enable her to eat a load of sugar. And that I know for a fact that she doesn’t space all that stuff out over a week, the sweet snacks are gone within a few days. “Well actually I do pretty well for me. I’ve already cut a lot of sugar and carbs out. No chocolate for nearly a year!! I’m feeling pretty good about myself”

And yet, later on in the day... “Uh-oh on the news, most covid deaths underlying illness is type 2 diabetes 😱 😭”

I brought up the fact that she’s got popcorn, crisps, sweets and an assortment of cheese in her shopping order... “I like living life on the edge.
Some of my pinprick results make me diabetes free!!”

I mean what the fuck do I say to that? How do I make her see that it’s no good her complaining when she eats so much rubbish? I feel like refusing to do her shopping for her, or refusing to order those items, but a) I’d never hear the end of it and b) she’d only get someone else to buy it for her.

I’m really worried. I don’t know what to do. What do I do?

Also, old fashioned views of healthy eating and that age group's understanding of diabetes are skewed. I was shocked to realise that MIL thought drinking at least one large glass of orange juice a day at least was HEALTHY. she genuinely had no idea the impact on her diabetes.

Ultimately, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

It's clear she's not going to change her behaviour any time soon, she's an adult, it's the choice she's made, and it's her right to do so.

You have to make the decision that is best for you now. Either you can continue to pester her, in the hope that you'll eventually get through to her, causing you stress, her stress, and upsetting your relationship.
Or you can let it go, and make a conscious decision to enjoy the time you have left.
In her mind, she's probably thinking, "I'm in my 70s, my time is coming to an end, I might as well enjoy it!" And honestly, I can't blame that mentality. I can picture myself having a similar view when, God willing, I get to that age!

The information is all out there, it isn't really difficult to find it, should one want to.

The problem is that generation grew up believing that pie and mash, followed by apple pie was a perfectly acceptable dinner. It's hard to change what they've done their whole lives.

My stepfather with diabetes type 2 truly believes he eats well. For example he has a salad and fish quite often for dinner. Great. Except for the half a jar of mayonnaise on the side of his plate.

I normally buy about 1 big packet of butter a month. When he's staying, we get through two a week.

I don't think they notice the little things 'on the side'.

The information is all out there, it isn't really difficult to find it, should one want to.

This is hilarious. Yes, it's out there. But... not only do diabetics not bother to find it, neither do their family members who all want to rant about their appalling choices.

As a diabetic, mayo, fish and salad is not actually that bad. Obviously, high fat in mayo isn't ideal, but if he's otherwise eating a low fat diet and is certainly not eating a lot of carbs, I wouldn't be getting too worked up about this.

I fucking hate the "x condition costs the nhs billions, people have a duty to be as healthy as possible" argument. Just sod off with your pious crap unless you live a 100% healthy and risk free life and never do anything that might mean you need to use an NHS service.

I completely agree. A woman having 4, 8, 12 children will cost the NHS a lot more in maternity-based care than a woman who has none. A participant in extreme sports is likely to break more bones than somebody who sits at home playing Scrabble.

I also completely agree with the PP who said that eating unhealthy foods is bad for all of us and will ultimately cost the NHS more than if we all ate veg and salad. How is it possibly fair to demonise somebody with the genes that can mean they end up with T2D when a genetically luckier person is doing the same thing?

Was poor Verne Troyer any more at fault or to be shamed than any other person with alcohol over-consumption problems (not saying that they should at all), purely because a 6-foot man could have got away with the same thing for much longer?

My FIL started smoking at 10 (yes hard to believe but true), he has never in his life done a days exercise and eats nothing but processed food and junk, getting through a bag of sweets a day, several biscuits etc He is 76 now and still going strong. I agree that a stroke or heart attack would have been a kindness but he is now parked in a care home with vascular dementia, fed and medicated and likely to last a long time. The thing is there really isn't much of an incentive to take care of your helalth because modern medicine will see to many of the problems that it creates - strokes, heart disease, they are all on the decline due to the prevalance of statins and other interventions. Many many people are escaping this demise now only to find something more horrific waiting around the corner for them and their relatives. I'm afraid that there is very little that you can do but learn to accept her choices.

The comment about the mayonnaise shows a lack of understanding in my view. Imagine if you could never eat the things you love again. Jacket potatoes; rice; pasta; bread; cakes; chocolate; crisps; birthday cake; ice cream etc, all off the menu, for example. If the mayonnaise perks up a green salad and some cold fish, rather than the crusty baguette with butter or creamy potato salad that others might have, let him get on with it!

@Settle59 - yes, I meant LADA by T1.5. They think there’s more types of diabetes out there than that, the research is finding new things all the time. Sadly a cure has been “5 years away” for T1 for many years now, and I don’t think a cure for T2 would ever be possible, as it’s not (so much) about insulin production, which could maybe one day be dealt with by a closed loop system, ie an internal pump aka artificial pancreas, as it is the body having lost its ability to absorb glucose correctly

I think it would be better if a message were conveyed to society at large that diabetes T2 is extremely draining on the NHS

Just out of interest, what would you say to a phenomenally rich person with uncontrolled T2D who cost the NHS tens of thousands but paid millions in taxes each year? What if that same individual personally objected to women having more than two children on the NHS, 'funded by their taxes', especially when pregnancy is not an illness; or believed that people suffering from severe depression and make frequent attempts on their own lives should be guilted and have it hammered home how much an overdose costs the NHS? If said rich person offered to fund extensive campaigns 'warning' the population what the financial costs of these and other actions are to society?

I'm all for general education about the best use of public funds, but singling people out for one particular condition and seeking to shame them based on it when others get a comparative 'free pass' is just nasty. I also wouldn't use the word 'draining' in any literature.

*he has a salad and fish quite often for dinner. Great. Except for the half a jar of mayonnaise on the side of his plate.

I normally buy about 1 big packet of butter a month. When he's staying, we get through two a week*

Living in the past. Low fat diets have been discredited, the latest advice is two portions of fat rich food per day. No wonder diabetics are confused when the relatives pushing “healthy” eating are talking out of their arses.

Lol. Except it's half a jar of mayonnaise. Approx 10 tablespoons. I'm not the one who's 25 stone.

I suspect this a complete exaggeration and it’s actually a couple of spoonfuls. And, regardless of what you weigh @arethereanyleftatall, your nutrition knowledge is out of date.

Also you need to separate unhealthy eating leading to weight gain etc from unhealthy eating that worsens diabetes.

I'm so tired of people exclaiming at a diabetic, "no, you can't have cheese, you're diabetic". Bull shit. Too much cheese is, arguably, not great for a person. Any person. it has nothing to do with diabetes. Cheese will not have a discernible impact on a diabetic's production of insulin. And some fat, particularly healthy fat, is actually good for a person (my biggest issue when DH was doing Slimming World was the ridiculous number of syns avocados are).

If your stepfather is massively over weight, then sure, that may well be something he needs to consider in his lifestyle and it certainly won't help his diabetes. But he doesn't need to stop eating butter because he's diabetic specifically.

What a bizarre comment. Lol. Yes he does and no it's not. I'll leave you to your somewhat strange desire for a fight I think.

@arethereanyleftatall, your nutrition knowledge is definitely out of date if you demonise fat

Are you my sister? Have exactly the same situation. The refusal to stay home as she had to do her shopping on a Saturday (even pre-lockdown) despite being retired and able to drive. Then she complains it’s busy. I have offered to shop online but she refuses. At Christmas she was sitting saying ‘oh but I can’t resist chocolate!’ Then admitted she eats 6 sausages in a roll every morning for breakfast. She has no clue this will kill her!

I don’t know what else apart from insulin she can be injecting but you’ll never get through to her.

Judgments aren’t really helpful to a lot of overweight people. There are so many complicating factors why a person is overweight. Yes, ultimately it comes down to the maths of CICO and making good choices, but it’s not that straightforward in practice, otherwise everyone would be slim.

Psychologically, genetically, emotionally, physically, there are lots of reasons why people gain weight, and lots of reasons why it doesn’t come off again, or they can’t keep it off. The fat cells don’t go away with the weight loss, for example. They lurk around waiting to be refilled. There was even one fascinating study saying that your body shape is governed by what your grandmother ate whilst pregnant with your mother! I think in terms of understanding obesity and the human connection to food and weight, we are just in our early infancy.

It is draining though even if the person is a billionaire. It’s not very “nice” but don’t you think part of the reason we are here - 67% of people overweight, 1 in 16 with T2, many more undiagnosed or pre-diabetic-is because there’s a lack of honesty and people value being perceived as nice more than being truthful? If the truth is “nasty” so be it..type two diabetes can be pretty nasty but I guess hurt feelings come first 🤷‍♀️.

T2 can often be managed or even reversed by diet and lifestyle.

Siameasy - When I was younger I can remember an elderly lady looking at me and saying "old age don't come alone". (sic). From my experience with my friends mother - Type 2 diabetes also 'don't come alone' - if you attend the diabetic clinic - you're also likely to attend the eye clinic etc etc...

Good point Settle cos a close relative of mine has T2. He’s in his 50s and has flirted with sepsis more than once. It’s a really dreadful condition and with what I’ve seen with him it is not taken seriously at all.

My mum is the same over smoking. She has many illnesses related to smoking but refuses to stop. Its utterly frustrating.

She now isn't allowed to talk about any of her smoking illnesses to me or wine and moan about them. If she does I put the phone down.

Pre corona, if she lit up a fag while we were visiting, we would all go home, on mass.

I'd make sure she knows about www.diabetes.org.uk/ possible buy the Blood sugar book PP suggested - possible mention some weight loss local groups or any exercise groups she might enjoy - so she knows they are there - and refuse to engage with the I won't see such and such date.

One of my parents has type 2 - it well controlled had it over 30 years now and at late 70s it's now the complications are slowly starting up. DH GM had it for decades as well she lived to her 90s it was well control by their child who lived with them - they did all the shopping and cooking, readings and medication. So getting in habit of regular readings and adjusting insulin accordingly is really the really important thing - maybe get her to focus on that first.

Has she had appointments with dietitians or any support form GP surgery ? - hearing things from professionals can often make more impact.

Ultimately though you can't change her behavior only she can.

"T2 can often be managed or even reversed by diet and lifestyle."

But it can't necessarily be avoided in the over 65's. Being over 50 with diabetes in the family ate risk factors. You can lessen your chances of it causing complications, but not necessarily get rid of it. Being Chinese is a risk factor, along with heart disease (which isn't always the fault of the individual), having PCOS and lots of other things outside of our control.

So don't get too smug.

"The problem is that generation grew up believing that pie and mash, followed by apple pie was a perfectly acceptable"

It was, for their time. Just fighting off the cold in unheated houses, with single glazed windows, without adding in manual work/bike riding to work etc needed carbs and calories.

But, as said, we all 'cost' society something. Individually we might think we're ok with what we are doing, but other people would judge you and your choices.

It doesn't matter how old you are, every adult has autonomy. The risks are ours to take.

supercilioussal - what is T1.5?

LADA or latent autoimmune diabetes of adulthood, my diabetes nurse suspects I have this but they don't do the antibody test as it is too expensive. I was diagnosed at 35 without other risk factors.

Basically it is like Type 1 in that the pancreas stops producing insulin but does it much slower than in type 1. The patterns of the illness overlap between 1 and 2 but the treatment is insulin rather than the meds for type 2.

There are actually 8 types of diabetes which have been identified, including gestational.