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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

511 replies

Slidetotheleft · 20/05/2020 07:19

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

OP posts:
SparrowInTheHedge · 20/05/2020 09:43

So effectively they're saying that his "opportunity" to build a new life, business and make money is more important than providing for his child. They are also saying that it's your sole responsibility to provide her with all she needs, and that they're ok with that.

Absolute lunacy.

PuntoEBasta · 20/05/2020 09:44

Oh, that is so tough and I really feel for you Flowers

You have had some great advice, especially from @JessicaDay. I would just add that when people who otherwise consider themselves to be decent do this sort of thing, they spin themselves a narrative to justify it to themselves and others. Their son is no doubt feeding this: 'I just need to get back on my feet, I need a few weeks [which of course turns into months and years], I will make it right, I'll pay it all back' etc etc. They tell themselves that he will come good and that they are doing the right thing by their granddaughter in a difficult situation. They will not allow themselves to consider the possibility that their son is lying to them, even if on some level they know it is likely.

Of course, in actual fact their collusion with their son is directly to the detriment of their granddaughter, and I think it would be reasonable for you to lay this out to them. They know it deep down but they have convinced themselves and each other of a different story. Contact in the future will be on your terms and supervised, with no photos etc.

Magicbabywaves · 20/05/2020 09:47

No. They sound like cunts.

failedasaparent · 20/05/2020 09:50

DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her

Then they should carry on seeing her. Not because they love it but because she enjoys their company.

Frouby · 20/05/2020 09:51

Id let them continue a relationship with her tbh. She has already lost her father. The maintenance is between you and him, not you, him and his parents.

When your dd is older you can explain everything. My dd is 15 and is horrified her father never paid maintenance. She had an eow relationship with him until she was 11/12 when she chose herself to stop going.

Winterwoollies · 20/05/2020 09:51

It sounds like he’s hiding from a shit ton of creditors and angry people his business has affected. I doubt he’s in prison. He’s probably quite good at hiding his money.

I think the idea of telling them if they want to facilitate contact with her, they need to go through their son, is a good one. They have no rights.

They all sound like terrible people.

diddl · 20/05/2020 09:52

How does she feel about not seeing her father?

I'd be wary of making them seek contact through him if him reappearing wouldn't be a good thing.

AllyBamma · 20/05/2020 09:52

There is no way in the world they would have access to my child. Ever. They are consciously enabling him to dodge his financial responsibilities to his child so in my book they are just as bad as him. They’re completely complicit! I’m sorry but he and his parents are having their cake and eating it too. Until he starts paying maintenance they should have no contact whatsoever. And that’s not on you, that’s on them and him. If they truly cared then this arrangement shouldn’t be a problem.

Helendee · 20/05/2020 09:53

Why are people suggesting that the grandparents are financially responsible?
They are already providing gifts, clothing and the grandfather taking on the role of his own son on occasion.

Intelinside57 · 20/05/2020 09:56

I keep changing my mind on this one, so hard for you Op! However I'm remembering a time when my sister put my parents into a similarly difficult position which could have meant that they no longer saw their grandson. They were stuck in the middle, not wanting to do something that might mean they lost contact with their daughter, but also so afraid of losing contact with their grandson. They cried.

bigdecisionstomake · 20/05/2020 09:57

This is a really difficult situation OP. If it was me, like you I would want to keep DD in touch with as much of her extended family as possible, particularly given the absence of her father. It would also feel like it was punishing DD by not letting her see them if she enjoys the relationship.

There is a very big BUT though - I would not support them lying to her about not knowing the whereabouts of her father - I think that is completely unacceptable. So if it was me, I would make it clear to them that they would only carry on having a relationship with her if they were honest with her about the situation with her father. Not necessarily the whole nuts and bolts but the basic facts that they do know where he is and the reasons he has for not seeing her.

MotherofTerriers · 20/05/2020 09:57

It's a dreadful dilemma for you. But the current situation isn't stable, he will form a new relationship, maybe have other children and your daughter may well get much less attention from her grandparents. I wouldn't let them see her unsupervised, and I wouldn't give them any photos. I'd make it very very clear to them that seeing her go without to protect their son is a horrible thing to do, and that some day when she is older she will realise what they have done. I'd also try to fill your daughter's life with good people who care about her. Build your friendships and hers. You may not have family support, but you can have wonderful supportive friendships. This will help to make her grandparents a smaller part of her life.

Intelinside57 · 20/05/2020 09:58

Someone above said that this is between you and your ex, and maybe that's right? If your daughter and her grandparents love each other, and this is the one thing that is making you consider separating them, would that be right? Grandparents don't have to pay to see their grandchildren, would it be right to blackmail them I wonder.

gamerchick · 20/05/2020 09:59

I think after reading all your posts about her relationship with them I would let things carry on. Bairns don't care about money.

However, I will be telling them that if they continue to lie about where dad is it will come back and bite them on the arse when she's old enough to work it out and that they might want to think of something else when she asks.

Flimflamfloogety · 20/05/2020 09:59

If he's ' setting up a business' it may be worth contacting a credit reference agency such as Dun & Bradstreet, Grayson, Experian, Equifax or Creditsafe and paying for a one off director search. It shouldn't cost more that a few £ and if he's registered the company it will provide the details which will include the registered address of the company.

As to contact with GP, I'd go with what another poster suggested and tell them it has to be arranged through him. You're not technically cutting it off, but putting the onus back on him.

pennylane83 · 20/05/2020 10:00

Their son is a grown man who can make decisions for himself. If he has chosen to forget the existence of his own child then so be it but don't punish the grandparents for now being put in the middle. They can't make their son see his own child anymore than you can. I would make it very clear that they are to pass on no information/photos etc.

AJPTaylor · 20/05/2020 10:00

I think the theory of ditching them and the reality are two very separate things. It sounds unlikely cms could get money out of him anyway.
You say you have no family. I can't see it's in your dds best interests to ditch the only extended family she has. Where would she go if something happened to you?

MinkyWinky · 20/05/2020 10:00

It's really difficult situation. Can you have an open conversation with them and tell them if they continue to lie to her, you feel you have no choice but to limit her contact with them as it's not fair on your DD, but in the context that you'd prefer not to do so as you know they have a good relationship with her.

peperethecat · 20/05/2020 10:01

Why are people suggesting that the grandparents are financially responsible?

Because they are deliberately concealing the whereabouts of the person who is financially responsible, and whom they raised. He is what they made him.

Grandparents have no financial responsibilities towards their grandchildren, but no right to see them either. Parents have the right to see their children, but they have financial responsibilities.

If they want to see their granddaughter whilst facilitating their son's shirking of his financial responsibilities, it would be fair for them to agree to assume those financial responsibilities themselves.

user1487194234 · 20/05/2020 10:05

Haven't read the full thread
I would speak to them outwith your daughter's presence and say that the lack of contact/mainentenance is very distressing and causing your daughter harm

Ask them if they will reconsider telling you where he is
Stay calm (not easy) and don't make it conditional on seeing your DD

Say they can have 2 weeks to think about it and that if you don't hear from them by the end of the 2 weeks you will assume they are not prepared to help you and your DD

If they don't tell you I would cut down contact to bare minimum

Your DD is too young to have direct contact, you are needed to facilitate it ,so just withdraw from that.
Sorry can't come over today ,going out etc

Retain the high moral ground and don't cut ties

At the moment they are having it all their own way

FlowersAreBeautiful · 20/05/2020 10:06

I don't think it would be fair on your DD to stop her seeing her grandparents. They're CFs for not giving you his details but it would be unfair to withdraw contact. Can you go through CMS maybe they can find him?

NearlyGranny · 20/05/2020 10:09

Honesty is what's missing from these people's relationship with you and your DD. Honesty really matters. Without it, the relationship is just fake - it's play-acting.

The child's needs must come first. Not just her financial and emotional needs but her need to know her wider family genuinely loves and cares for her: these people don't.

Why not tell them if they are going to see her after lockdown and continue talking during it, they need to take stock of what they're doing, put their DGD, who has no guilt and no choices, ahead of their DS and level with you about the situation? Be honest about your attempts to locate him and your communications with CMS. That may be what they are dreading and once they know the worst has happened and the sky hasn't fallen in, they might open up a bit.

You could tell them you can cope with knowing he's in prison, and you'll handle that news sensitively with your DD, but your suspicions that he's skipped the country and is living it up somewhere abroad and even producing new DGC for them and that they are covering for him are souring your relationship with them as GPS.

When they trust you with the truth, you will trust them with their DGD again and not before. No excuses. Their call. If they remain secretive, dishonest and partisan, they are no loss in her life. If they are Frank and open they are worth her building a relationship with.

Aneley · 20/05/2020 10:12

I wonder how good of a grandparent one can be if they think their son's 'need to rebuild his business and life' comes before the well-being of their GC. It is a difficult one but I would hate my DD growing up with people who lie to her and pretend to love her so much while consciously jeopardizing her rights by protecting the person that hurt (and continues to hurt) her.

Smithlets80 · 20/05/2020 10:15

Slightly off topic but my exdh did the same and a solicitor friend recommended a company they use to find people in situations like this. I’ll dig the details out if you would like them.

over50andfab · 20/05/2020 10:16

Sorry, haven’t RTFT but I’d do what you believe to be in the best interests of your DD.

It sounds like they haven’t actually lied to you, but have to her because it might be too difficult to explain why they’ve chosen this course. They should be honest with her too in an age appropriate way.