Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

Omg no way would I allow this. They are completely enabling this disgusting behaviour.

So they only get to see her if they pay out?
How horrible.

What is horrible is them enabling their son to shirk his financial obligations towards his child whilst expecting to still get to be Disney grandparents.

They could easily just tell the OP where he is, and tell him they are having no part in his shitty behaviour and abandonment of his daughter.

I wouldn’t let them see her and I wouldn’t feel any guilt whatsoever. Disgraceful behaviour from them. Your DD doesn’t need people like that, they do not have her interests at heart.

I would ask them directly:

“Why should I facilitate a relationship between you and your granddaughter when you are lying to her and to me about her father’s whereabouts, and enabling your son, her father, to abdicate every single one of his responsibilities toward her? How do you think your granddaughter is going to feel when she learns that you have prevented her having a relationship with her own father and that you have repeatedly lied to her?”

I would not want those kind of people in my child’s life. The correct response in their part would be to give his location to the proper officials and also tell him that if he doesn’t take care of his child, they will not forgive him.

If I were you next item they ring and ask for dd I’d claim not to know where she was and when questioned I’d reply ‘We’re trying to rebuild our lives, we can’t do that with you on our backs’; I would literally parrot back what they are saying to you.

Another vote for this...^

A healthy relationship with your 5 year old DGC does not include directly lying about the whereabouts of their father!!? How damaging is that!? Why, so 'he can rebuild his business and life'...while totally abandoning his child!?

NC....

So they only get to see her if they pay out?
How horrible.

Or simply stop lying and tell Op where he is so she can effectively pursue maintenance through CMS. No paying out necessary in that scenario, just a bit of openness and acknowledgment that their son is a bloody disgrace. They should be horrified by his behaviour, not enabling it.

• So they only get to see her if they pay out? How horrible.*

They are enabling him not to pay or see his dd. Since he's self-employed (op mentions him starting a business) then his payments aren't going to be high are they?

In an ideal world he'd see his dd and pay his share. Disappearing will have damaged his dd/their granddaughter and that's ok?

We have no clue about the OP's financial situation and how well she can afford no maintenance from her ex.

It's scandalous that the government would go after someone for not paying council tax or vat but child maintenance isn't pursued at all.

The reality is that plenty of fathers get contact despite not paying as contact and maintenance are separate issues. My heart breaks for this little girl who has asked her grandparents if they know where he is and they've denied knowing.

The grandparents should be urging their son to do the right thing but they've chosen their relationship with their irresponsible son over their innocent granddaughter. Do they know that he didn't even acknowledge her birthday and Christmas? I know that kids need practical stuff like food and heat but how can they not feel anything for a little girl who's had her Dad suddenly disappear? The grandparents are sending him pics and videos so enabling him to get the benefit of "knowing her" with no effort.

So they only get to see her if they pay out?
How horrible.

Absolutely and nothing horrible about it. Their son isn't paying for his own child (not that child maintenance is actually a true reflection of how much it costs to raise a child). They are actively standing in the way of their grandchild getting financial support from father. They should be ashamed!! Offering to pay it is the decent thing to do.

If he is in contact with his parents then there is no reason why he couldn't send them Christmas and birthday presents to give her either.

I would continue contact along as it was beneficial for your DD but I think you deserve the chance to question there choice.

I would send them an email/letter really laying out what there choice means for your and dd from the financial side to the emotional and that one day they will have to explain their decision to a little girl. Keep the tone neutral and emphasise the hurt rather that anger.

Explain that you've seriously questioned if you want them in your dd life due to the deceit but that ultimately you will treat them as separate from their pitiful son and wont mention it again but that you are asking one last time for them to do the right thing.

I would actually do this for two reason, the first as previously said so you get it off your chest and secondly because in the future its evidence for your daughter that you held them to account.

As a child who was lied to about my father's whereabouts it was damaging, lies do effect kids. I was told no one knew where he was and he wasn't coming back and when I was 6 I was told I have a surprise. We all got in the car I thought it could be Disney land but was taken to go see my Dad I was in such shock I hide behind a tree trying not to cry. I will always try be honest with my kids. How do you know he's not close and he could be seeing her at some point and be told to keep it a secret or something.
You don't know what lies they could be telling her. Just seems toxic. She should see them but not alone anymore.

I wouldn’t let them see her. If they are lying to you it’s possible they may manipulate your dd to lie to you too.

Loving a child and bring suitable to be in a child's life are very different things. Loving a child is incompatible with abandoning a child. Although it's the dad who has abandoned the child, it's the grandparents who are making it possible and could prevent it if they wished. The fact that they won't speaks volumes about the kind of people they are and how much they really care. If they were trying to offset this decision with financial support of their own (not that they have to but it would indicate that they give a damn about the son's abandonment), it would mitigate but they haven't. So you are left with people who enable and facilitate the abandonment of a child because something else is more important.

There wouldn't be room for someone with these priorities in my child's life.

Also, these contradictions will be plastered over with lies in the years to come, feeding the child a dysfunctional idea about what love is and what we can expect of care givers. Better no one than that message.

I'd give them one last warning and then let it go.

I think the problem is that in punishing them, you also punish your daughter. My experience of csa is that it’s taken at source.
How do you know that she isnt seeing her dad when she spends time with her grandparents.

I am in the same dilemma , my dc absolutely loves their GP too and cutting them off would hurt them more than the GP . What I have decided to do is not entertain any conversation whatsoever with them . When they call or text , I let dc answer or send a voice note so they know i am not the one replying . They will always be their family whether I like it or not.

For those saying the GP are not financially responsible, or their contact shouldn't be dependent on money.... Yes this is correct, however the issue isn't really about getting any money, it's the PRINCIPLE that they are deliberately witholding information from OP and CMS.

OP is not asking them to pay anything, and even if they give his address there is no guarantee CMS will be able to get anything from him. The point is that they are very deliberately and very cruelly allowing the waste of space son dodge responsibility for a child he helped bring into the world.

I said it upthread, but personally I think best thing is to tell them they have to make contact through their son. You're not actually preventing them from seeing DD, just making it clear that they are being arseholes.

Clearly they do not love her enough to help support her and her well-being by ensuring that her dad pays appropriate child support.

Unless they are willing to pay his contributions for him, or say where he is, then absolutely I would cut contact.

They are currently playing at being grandparents, but they clearly do not have your daughter's best interest at heart of they are doing this.

It is not punishing a child to protect her from damaging people.

She may love them. But children don't get to decide on their safety.

Rose west's daughter sent her a Mother's Day card when she was in prison. Love isn't enough.

I said it upthread, but personally I think best thing is to tell them they have to make contact through their son. You're not actually preventing them from seeing DD, just making it clear that they are being arseholes

I think you should do this, that way your not saying they cant see DD, just that you can't facilitate them anymore and to go through their son for contact with DD

Really they should of just told you where he is. Its not fair on you

In a court of law the relationship between the grandparents and child will be seen entirely different from the relationship between the mother and the father.

Grandparents do win access rights.

OP if your still reading this don’t spite your dd to get at the grandparents. That’s awful.

When I see memes on facebook at not using children as weapons against other parents - I just used to role my eyes but it seems that actually quite a lot of people are capable of doing - OR advising some one else to do when it’s not their child I’m the middle of it!

I can't imagine enabling a child of mine to avoid their responsibilities to their child. I'd be so ashamed of them, so sad for the child. I'd wonder where I'd gone wrong that the person I'd raised to adulthood thought this was acceptable.

I think I'd be saying that to the grandparents. But if the child benefits from the relationship, allowing contact, on my terms. I'd also point out that the child didn't get birthday presents, Christmas presents, from their father, so if they are going to enable him to avoid such basics, perhaps they ought to make bloody sure they step up to the plate.

They can have access @Spillinteas through their son. Who they are in contact with and have chosen to side with.

That's what happens in a divorce. Each parent separates and enables access with their family.

The grandparents are not “preventing” the father from being a father or facilitating his abandonment. They are simply not assisting the op with maintenance.

It’s awful that the father has abandoned the dc and is not paying maintenance. But there is no reason to cut off contact with the gp. They should not have to pay to see their Gc.

Don’t use your child as a weapon to hurt your ex’s family when it will hurt her too. Be a good parent and put her first

They are assisting on financially depriving their grandchild.
They have made a choice and they've chosen him over a child. That's their choice. They need to balls to own it.