Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

I haven't RTFT exactly but I wanted to agree with something a PP said.

They're already so immoral in their actions, how long until they start facilitating 'secret' visitations with daddy as soon as they can guarantee that she won't say anything to you.

What they are doing is absolutely awful. Of course you don't want to have to punish DD but a) it's not punishing her to remove toxic people from her life and b) if doing this would be the kick up the arse they need to do the right thing then there may not be much time DD doesn't see them - it may actually reunite DD with her dad sooner than would have happened.

They seem to be feeling so powerful in this situation. You are DD's sole carer, they're not helping you, they're hindering you in raising her. So it wouldn't be a bad thing to leave them out of the picture now that you've seen their true colours.

Some awful mothers on here. A shit Dad but living grandparents. You need to put aside your persona l, very justufued, pain and fury and be the person who puts your d's first ignore the keyboard warriors with their own axes to grind and put her first. She will benefit far more from grandparents than your short lived triumph of hurting them because you can't hurt him.

They don't love the child.
If they did they would pull hand OP his address and say nothing more. That's all she's asking.

But they don't give a shit. Look what they raised. I wouldn't allow history to repeat itself.

Children do need family.

But not if they’re going to damage the child’s mental health by playing toxic games with mums head and by protecting their son who abandoned GC and refuses to pay maintenance!

If a judge decides to give access in court, then the same judge can uphold the law by making the dad pay maintenance! There wouldn’t actually be any problem at all if the father did that, would there? And if that access choice were over mum’s head then in future years when DD is angry and it all comes out - Mum had no choice. She’s in the clear from any of this bullshit, not of her own doing because it wasn’t her decision.

The absent father is causing this and the minute his parents suffer the consequences, he may man up and do the right thing for everyone’s sake. He doesn’t care enough about his DD and is putting his business first!

I have experience with estranged families and I can tell you, kids are better for hearing the truth and for having a stable parent raising them. That level of game playing nonsense will do more harm than good. It’s undermining the mother who has been left to parent - how shitty it is that everyone here is forgetting that.

Stop dancing around men like this. They get away with it because everyone assumes a mum has to pander to everyone else’s needs. She doesn’t.

Cut them off. They’ll either realise what they’re losing and mediate effectively or they’ll sulk and continue to protect their son.

What will happen if in 5 years, absent father turns up with 3 more kids and GP don’t really care about DD any more?? That happens too!

Seriously, don’t be blackmailed like this. It’s bloody awful. You’re not depriving your DD of good people here. They sound incredibly selfish. The types who will happily protect their son so he can rebuild his life without DD. What exactly ARE they doing about it to the benefit of their granddaughter’s future!

No way, they are not on your dd side at all.
Anyone could turn up to school for the glory, but they are shielding their son from his financial responsibilities to his family.
I'd cut all contact, tell them it's not in her interest, and they've made their choice of loyalty to a feckless father.

Sounds like they are putting their useless son first, I would also put my child first and cut them off. If they can lie or withold information about something as important as this what else can they do. I would cut ties.

You could argue, removing toxic game players who are not willing to actually do anything to help, IS putting the needs of DD first. Who needs that kind of fuckery?

‘Sorry mummy struggled darling, but your dad needed to rebuild his business when he left you and didn’t get in touch. We didn’t help her out because he was more important than you two’

Be real.

I'd tell them that since their son refuses to support his child, and they refuse to say where he is, you have no choice but to ask them for regular financial support for their grandchild.

Your DD doesn't need family who lie to her and stand directly in the way of child maintenance being paid for her.
The GPs clearly have little respect for you.

How horrible of them.

Not your problem to be facilitating their contact with their granddaughter. This can be arranged though her father from now on, & once maintenance has been received in full.

Going against the majority but I think I would let DD see the GPs in these circumstances. I would not want to punish the child further by severing her relationship with other family members. Obviously I don't know all the full facts and I'm sure there are conversations to be had about the actions of the grandparents in supporting their son but over all I would try to maintain the family relationships for the sake of DD.

Cut them out, unless they want to pay what's owed themselves.

If I were you next item they ring and ask for dd I’d claim not to know where she was and when questioned I’d reply ‘We’re trying to rebuild our lives, we can’t do that with you on our backs’; I would literally parrot back what they are saying to you.

I'd do this. You'll soon find out where their loyalties lie and how badly they want to see their DGD. If they're lying to you now about his whereabouts, then I couldn't trust them not to facilitate secret visits. I certainly wouldn't want them passing on photos or information for his enjoyment. How despicable that they're denying your DD the financial support she's entitled to from her father.

Definitely agree that it’s up to Ex to facilitate contact with his parents. It’s not just that he’s not paying maintenance, he should be seeing your DD 50:50. What were the reasons for him buggering off and how has he managed to get a new partner, rebuild his life and start a new business in the 12 months since leaving but he hasn’t had the time to put a birthday card/present in the trolley when he’s shopping? If he’s going to be so irresponsible and his parents are going to support that, then I’d be limiting contact with them. Phone calls, fine, but as a PP said limited contact on your terms and no photos. They will be sending everything back to him and he frankly doesn’t deserve it. Being a parent isn’t optional but he’s chosen to opt out and they are enabling that and lying to your DD to boot. He doesn’t deserve nice pictures and stories about how well DD is doing all the while not bothering himself to actually see her. They are part of the deception unfortunately. Don’t restart contact after lockdown and if they ask you can say you’re not participating in the lie any more and if they want to see DD they should speak to their son.

@InfiniteSheldon
It's not as simple as that.
They're supporting the complete emotional and financial abandonment of their GD by their son, despite seeing first hand the effect it must have on her (going to fathers day events in his place, birthdays where he hasn't so much as sent her a card). They're lying to DDs face, and will presumably continue to do so. And as other pp have said who knows how this will on out in the future.

I was actually going to post in support of letting the GP continue to see DD, as I felt that was the right thing to do, despite the fact I don't think I would be able to do it myself in this situation.

However, if you read through the thread, multiple people who have been in this situation (either as the mother or the child) have given their experiences, and every single one has said they wish the relationship with GPs hadn't been allowed to continue for as long as it did.

Right now the relationship with them is beneficial to DD, but only because she's not old enough to question their lies. What happens when she gets older and more intuitive, and Dad has abandoned her for 3, 4, 5 years? What happens if he starts a new family? If GP facilitate secret meetings and expect DD to lie?

And as far as those saying it's all about money - it's actually the Grandparents supporting the child not having access to her father for money reasons.

@WeirdAndPissedOff 'every single one'

Not true in the slightest. Read the thread again.

There are at least 3 people on this thread that have experienced it directly and it turned out fine/great. Myself included.

Do they help you financially, considering that they are keeping you from getting financial help from your husband?

All this bs about 'secret meetings'.

Where in the OP does it say that access is not allowed? Where in the OP does it say that the DF even wants access? So why would there be a necessity for 'secret meetings'?

They either need to make their son pay for his child or pay themselves. Not cover up for them. Otherwise, they are making the mother pay for the kid to have grandparents.

No. They wouldn't be seeing her. They don't deserve to.

I don't see it as letting them see her, it's letting her spend time with them.

As hard as it is for you - and incredibly frustrating - I would let her keep seeing her grandparents for as long as she enjoys it.

She's a little kid. One important adult has already vanished. By all means talk to them some more about the impact on you both from them hiding their son's whereabouts, and stress that you think they are acting against the child's rights and interests.

Don't use her to try and force the issue with the grandparents, it's not fair on her.

I still don’t see why the grandparents should be held financially responsible, after all we are constantly told that grandparents have no rights and along with that goes no responsibility

The more I think about this the more it bothers me.

As DDs mother, if you were 'rebuilding your life' for whatever reason, wouldn't that INCLUDE your daughter??

What does it say about a person who claims that in order to rebuild his life he needs to cut out his own daughter?

He's not cut out his own parents! Either that's because he lives them so much that his new life must include them, or they are financially facilitating his 'rebuilding'.

How pathetic. I would feel awful if my father had told me he needed to rebuild his life and in order to do that he didn't want anything to do with me. I wouldn't accept that from a partner either!!

🤦‍♀️ what a character.

*loves them

I still don’t see why the grandparents should be held financially responsible, after all we are constantly told that grandparents have no rights and along with that goes no responsibility

Yup. If they want the right to see her they should be willing to accept the responsibility. Or at least tell the OP the whereabouts of the person who does have the responsibility, which they are deliberately concealing to the OP and her daughter's detriment.

So they only get to see her if they pay out?
How horrible.