Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

Don't use your daughter as a weapon. Of course he should be paying maintenance but if they are adding to her life by loving her then I think it's wrong to take that away from her.

They do come to her school plays and her grandad went to the 'fathers day' lunch at school in lieu of her father.

It's such a hard situation OP.

I'm married and for various reason now one could ever help us out with school stuff like this - and with three chidren and two of us and a school having lots of events - there were years with three seperate chistmas plays to see- it could get really hard.

It does depend on the child, some child don't care if no-one can come others really do - and the school, first school was aways having class plays and things to be in for - but if there's not much other family support it may become very important to have someone who'd be willing to do this in primary school years.

Doesn't mean it has to be as frequent contact as now or that you let the lying go on but I would avoid big fall out.

Isn't it just wonderful for these dads who can take breaks from looking after their children, what would happen if a mother did that? I know 3 women who moved out and left their kids with their father. One lived locally and had lots of contact, her son had a genetic condition and she saw him every day after work and did his physio with him. One had twins, was angry as it was her husband who wanted children and she felt he didn't do enough so she just left. She saw her children once in the next 18 years, they didn't know who she was, she was just an adult at another child's birthday party. When she reconnected with them 18 years later she became very possessive and was angry that they spent that Christmas with their father and step mother, I changed jobs so not sure what happened but she was threatening to cut them off if they didn't put her first as she was their mother. My neighbour's son and his girlfriend had a baby while they were at uni, he left to provide for them, she went away for a weekend and never came back. Daughter is grown up now and wouldn't know her mother is she bumped into her in the street.

That was spread over 40ish years so not a huge amount but 2 completely cut ties with their children, personally I know some dads who haven't been great after breakups but only one who didn't see his children for years.

I have no idea about the finances for two of them, one I know has never paid anything for her child. To be honest I think the one with the child with a genetic condition found it hard ot cope and the third one possibly had PND. The one with twins I think just never wanted kids and the double whammy was just too much for her.

Sorry not really relevant.

OP don't punish your daughter, if it will hurt her to cut them off then don't do it, she has lost enough, they might not be great but if she loves them and they love her that is important. If she isn't going to be bothered then definitely tell them you will not facilitate contact unless they either tell you where he is or make him contact you.

I agree with asking them to pay for the maintenance, this would help out their son rebuild his business surely as he wouldn't owe you money.

I was in this situation with DS and his grandparents. My initial reaction was to say fuck you to them but when I sat and thought about it I would have been punishing DS. He likes spending time with them, they are good to him. His Dad had put them in a difficult situation as he had explicitly asked them not to disclose his whereabouts. They don't agree with what he is doing but equally he is their son and they don't want to fall out with him.
I think they are complete twats but DS loves them so I keep things civil for him. They are the only paternal family he has. DS is old enough to decide who he wants in his life and I feel it's my responsibility to support him to have a relationship with his grandparents.

I would say that if they know where he is but won't tell you solely from a 'money' point of view -then I would say no. They are enabling their son.

If they have contact with him, and were to pass his details to the csa -fine. I'd allow contact.
If my ex in laws were nice normal people and had cut him off with no contact, I would have allowed it.
But they are enabling his abusive behaviour. This is abuse financial abuse but abuse never the less and it needs to be recognised as such.

Via his NI number the CSA should be forcing him to pay. If he is 3K in arrears I'd be sending a copy to grandparents and asking why they are enabling their son to not meet the minimum requirement in law for the basic CMA.

Sorry it wasn't clear, when I said he left to provide for them I meant he left uni and got a job.

Why does the child specifically need to know where her father is when he clearly isn't wanting contact? I didn't know where my dad was growing up, but my grandparents knew. I have no scars from it. Knowing would have made it worse in many respects

Its either a white lie to protect the little girl, or they suspect mummy is fishing for an address to get the owed cms which they (wrongly) won't give.

Its bad, but it's not something to cut contact over. Those grandparents are in an incredibly tricky position, who knows what the relationship between them and their son is like.

I've been dwelling on this difficult situation. Fast forward a few years and play through how the scenario might go when the daughter finds out the GPs were lying and did know where dad was, and mum knew about it. I keep imagining having to hear my teenage daughter saying "and you knew about this?" And I know it would break my heart. For that reason, I would have to limit contact with the GPs, I couldn't stop it entirely for the daughter's sake, and I would have to be honest with her about the GPs not telling the truth. That I know they love her in their own way, but they love their son too and that sadly means supporting him in doing the wrong thing rather than encouraging him to do the right thing.

It's a really tricky path to walk between cutting off all contact and enabling the lie. It keeps the door open for an ongoing relationship with the GPs but doesn't make you complicit in the lying.

I hope you find a way through this.

It’s not their fault he isn’t paying money towards his child. He could he telling his mother that he has depression/suicidal or anything so she doesn’t say where he is.

It’s a shame that so many women would ‘advise’ other women to block the child from seeing loving grandparents who care about her.

I have a crazy bat shit toxic mil who manipulated her grandkids. That’s worth pulling kids away for.

The argument is between the mother and father - not the child or the grandparents. This child shouldn’t be collateral damage

Ooo yes, I like the approach of facilitating contact through their son!

Ooo yes, I like the approach of facilitating contact through their son

Yeah like that’s ever going to happen. He’s fucked off and not seen her for 12 months. Do you think he gives a shit if his parents see her?

dontdisturbmenow, kids don’t ‘need” grandparents. Many children’s grandparents die before the kids are born. My grandfather died over 30 years before my birth.
Many live abroad and see the grandkids rarely if ever.
This particular charming couple are collaborating in the financial neglect of their grandchild - saying that she doesn’t deserve her own dad’s money for food and clothes. They’re despicable.

What does your dd want?

I would continue letting them see her after lockdown. I wasn’t speaking to my own mother when DS was born (long story) but I allowed her to see him at 3 months old and she has always been good to him.

The way I saw it was that it wasn’t my decision who got cut out of his life unless they had harmed him in some way and my issues are separate to that.

I would however tell them what you’ve been thinking and how unfair it is that they are supporting their son in avoiding paying maintenance. Then I would report him/start court proceedings for child maintenance and give their address for the place he can be reached.

And that’s the crux of it: what does she want? Would she be devastated if contact was cut? Nobody needs grandparents but anyone who’s been close to theirs will testify to it being a hugely life enhancing relationship.

It’s a shot thing for your ex to have done and it’s shit of his parents to Go along with it.

It would be shit of you to sever her relationship with her grandparents. She is unlikely to understand.

If you want to go down this route i suggest saying to PIL if you do not tell me where ex is then I will not be able to continue the access to DD. See if they change their mind or pay on their DS behalf.

So basically, GPs are loving towards DD and have regular contact with her, but have basically said that they’re not getting involved with trying to get maintenance?

It sounds absolutely mad that you would stop contact, assuming that it’s positive?

I think it’s really important for DD to have a relationship with her paternal family and, so long as it’s positive having them in her life, you should continue to facilitate it.

However, GPs have made their stance very clear - they are not willing to pass on Ex’s address so stop asking them

I bet they’re really missing DD during lockdown and hope that she’s still having some contact with them.

@Babdoc kids don’t ‘need” grandparents. Bit different to make that decision about a baby who doesn't know them, but if a child has a loving relationship with them don't you think it will hurt her if they just disappear.

Babdoc no kids don’t need grandparents- but the more people that love and care for a child the better. I do t let my kids see mil as she’s rotten but they adore their grandad and I’d never take that away from them

A lot of very selfish mothers who clearly don't care about breaking their kids heart as long as they get money
Money to keep the kid!

He’s fucked off and not seen her for 12 months. Do you think he gives a shit if his parents see her? He doesn't need to give a shit; but if they do then they'll do something about it.

For all posters saying GPs love your DD, if so, how can they look her in the face knowing that she didn't get anything for birthday and Christmas and they don't want to get involved with giving you the whereabouts of their son. They are lying to your DD, how long will they keep this up. I am so angry about this, they are making you complicit with the lying.

Thanks @dumbie. Sorry to hear you had a similar experience with your Dad, at least it sounds like you also lucked out with GPs.

People that love you unconditionally are few and far between in life and that, to me, was of great value even if they weren't perfect people

He doesn't need to give a shit; but if they do then they'll do something about it

How??? How can they force him to contact her? They are being put in an impossible position.

He is probably saying if you care about me you won’t tell them where I am till I’m ready. They have said he is rebuilding his life so they must be of the thought that it was in a mess before. He could be saying he is suicidal that if they tell her where he won’t see them again or come back.

Now the op is being advised to black mail elderly parents.

Son or granddaughter. It’s not a choice any parent would want to make.

The biggest loser in that would be a five year old who loves her grandparents

I agree with a pp that kids do need family-not shit ones though.

If her own father needs shielding from having to pay for her-perhaps sge does need shielding from the lot of them!

Has he ever been a good father?