Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

The person of most importance in all this is your daughter. You are trying to decide whether his parents are a positive or negative to her life. And you must consider both the short and the long term.

Short term, it's positive because "DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her." Long term is where it gets tricky.

They are lying to her. They tell her that they don't know where her daddy is. They only get away with that because you don't tell her the truth. That is not a criticism of you - they've put you in this position.

Trouble is, truth will out. How can it not come out - at some point he'll resurface. She won't be five forever, and she will realise that she has been lied to. How will she feel about that, and who will she blame? She'll blame her grandparents for lying. Will she blame her mother for letting them lie, for not telling her the truth? Because her mother knew they were lying and said nothing. And then she'd truly have no-one .

And she'll ask herself why they lied. And she'll deduce that they lied because their son was more important to them than their granddaughter. And she'll be devastated that people she trusted, that her mum let her trust, have been untrustworthy all along. She'll question if she can actually trust her mum, who colluded in the lie.

It is the continuation of the lie, and why they are lying, that will do the damage to your daughter.

So in my opinion the best thing long-term for your daughter is for the lying to stop. If his parents would be honest with your daughter, she could have a relationship with them that would not be ultimately damaging to her.

I wonder if they think their lie protects your daughter in some way? They see 'we don't know where he is' as less troubling to her than 'he's selfish and doesn't care about you'? It certainly makes life easier for them to just say 'we don't know'. No follow-up questions to field. It is ultimately a selfish non-answer on their part though, even if they pretend to themselves that it's a protective white lie to a five-year old.

But being honest with your daughter would only be the first step they'd have to take, and I'm not sure they're capable of the second and third steps. Prioritising her welfare over their son's; which would really involve them cutting him from their lives. They won't do that. If they'll do what they're doing now, they won't do that.

You need to lay it out to them. Point out the damage their lie is causing, and the pain it will cause your daughter when truth outs, and be clear that you are not going to allow that. They need to make their decision - son, or granddaughter. Who do they stand with?

Sometimes, what we have to do to protect our children bloody sucks, but we still have to do it. They and their son have brought about this horrible situation. And you are the one who is left dealing with it and trying to find the best, or maybe least worst, way to deal with it. In my opinion, ending the lies is least worst. Next least worst is not resuming contact with them.

So sorry you're having to deal with this Slidetotheleft. It sucks.

If he has registered his business as a Ltd company his address will be on the Companies House website as public information - you can search by directors names.

I would let her carry on seeing the grandparents. It is a beneficial relationship to her. BUT I would tell them that I will be telling DD when she is old enough that they knew and refused to tell where her father was. Then they will have to explain it to her.

They're not ashamed of their son - they're protecting him from 'moneygrabbers' so he can build his new life stress free.

YOU are being cast into the role of moneygrabber because you dare to expect maintenance from him.
They are all saying it's not his responsibility to contribute towards his dd's costs.

They haven't offered to help you out in any way - just feel entitled to see her.
I've no doubt they will secretly keep your ex updated with pics n vids, i wouldn't put it past them to arrange a meet behind your back.

As for replacing all ex's pics with dd's in their house - what do they tell her when she asks about her dad?
That he's dead? Or that he just doesn't care about her?
Or do they give her the impression that it's your fault, that you are the reason why her dad 'can't' be in her life?

I'd have told them to piss off when they first refused to hand over his details and decided they would help him avoid taking responsibility.
Apple didn't fall far from the tree.....

Fuck that. They are total cunts.

What a sad thread. The only consideration here should be a child's happiness. Using her as leverage for payment is not prioritising her happiness.

Lockdown is a blessing in disguise for this one.

Move her to phone calls only, even after lockdown.

Absolutely follow PP advice to tell GPs to arrange contact through their son. Sadly, contact is independent of that money - and actually, for your daughter contact is more important. So you’re not even saying, “tell me where he is so I can screw his money out of him ” you’re saying, “see her on his contact time”. It’s his fault if he hasn’t arranged that contact time with you 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wouldn’t think twice about pointing out how damaging it is to pretend daddy’s ok avoiding his daughter.

Disgusting awful behaviour. They’re enabling it, taking the benefits of being grandparents without taking any responsibility for their poor excuse of a son; and this will severely play tricks with her head when your DD is older.

Cut off. And when they get arsey about it, tell them it’s just how they seem to roll, so you thought they’d understand your reasoning.

You and DD will be absolutely fine and all the better for removing that level of fuckery going on around you. You owe them nothing. Not a thing.

What truly awful people to do that to you both. It’s literally tormenting you.

Where does OP say that they know exactly where he is? Maybe they know the county but not the actual address.

Either way, it's very depressing to read how many mners would be happy to punish a little girl who'se already been abandoned by her father just for money.

What will she tell her daughter when she asks why she can't see her grandparents? That they desperately want to see her but that mum is forbidding it because they won't tell her when her dad lives and he therefore can't give her money? If so, I don't think her daughter will be understanding of this.

Most likely she'd have to lie...oh wait, like her grandparents are supposedly doing..

The responses on this thread are very sad. A lot of very selfish mothers who clearly don't care about breaking their kids heart as long as they get money. What great morals to teach our kids.

i think theyre as bad as himhelp to you or just see their grandchild and thats it

kids dont need granparents and yes theyre lieing to her aswell

Tough one. Little One's father and grandparents are lying. I hate adults that think lying to children is acceptable. When it all comes out the child will be shattered. But then again, I don't think denying access to the GPS is a good idea either. The child loves her GPs and has already lost her dad. They are being dishonest but it's hard getting information out of them.

If it was me, and my child asked where her daddy was, I'd say, I don't know. I promise you, nobody will tell me where he is.

sorry meant to say do they give help you

A family member of mine was recently taken to court by a grandparent for access and won. The child didn’t even want to go but the judge said the mother and father had tried to alienate them against the grandparents. So access was granted.

So don’t be so sure you can take access.

Your dd enjoys the visits. They play an active role in her life. They are not toxic to her. So on that note I’d continue the visits.

Children do need family. They must be in a really hard place too. Removing pictures of him shows that they do not agree with his behaviour.

(Sorry posted too soon)

Then at least she knows you are being honest with her. She can count on her mum. Allow that trust grow.

Let the child keep using video calling/phone to stay in contact but after lockdown is lifted and they want to see her face to face, say no until your daughter gets answers to her questions. Or it will be ten times worse for her down the line.

@Slidetotheleft

Can you have someone follow them when they go to meet him? A long shot I know but maybe worth a try, and obviously after lockdown.

Get proof in writing, get a text from them or an email just something that's proves that they know where he is but won't tell you, sit on that proof until he resurfaces, so that when you take him to court for all the back pay you have something to show that you tried everything you could and his parents were helping to hide him.

I am more than happy to judge the Grand Parents for their useless sons lack of ability to provide for his own child.

Children do need family.

They also need food and shoes and a roof over their head - all things that the childs father should be contributing to.

They are shielding him - that's fine, he's their son.

OP should do the same and shield her daughter from him and them, they are enabling him to deprive their Granddaughter of the CM she deserves.

I would draw a distinction between grandparents who are making excuses for his shitty behaviour (which suggests they have poor values and aren't prioritising your child's wellbeing) and grandparents who are stuck in the middle and trying not to rock the boat (for example if they don't want to alienate their son in case they somehow end up falling out with you and needing his goodwill to see their grandchild, or if they genuinely believe it is better to lie e.g. if he is in prison and they think that is so shameful that it is better to lie).

From your comment that they say he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back I sadly think they are the former. It sounds like they think he is justified in not seeing his daughter and evading child maintenance. Whilst your daughter enjoys seeing them now and has fun with them, in the long-term being close to people with those values will probably not be good for her.

I would probably reduce contact down so that she has very occasional contact with them, rather than a close relationship which might end up hurting her one day.

I would be asking them to pay some maintenance instead if they want to keep having a relationship with them.

They are wilfully supporting their son as he walks out of his daughters life however I feel they should be cut a little slack for that as he is their son and as a rule there's nothing you won't do for your child, even if he's a shit.

Are they apologetic about the situation? Do they acknowledge that it's terrible that they won't tell you where he is?

I would tell them you are struggling financially and ask them to contribute in their sons stead. If they refuse they clearly don't have your daughters best interests at heart. That said I would still allow visitation for your daughters sake.

I don’t think contact from a non paying ex partner should be withheld but in this scenario then yes I would stop contact the whole thing is revolting and they are shameless to support their sons despicable behaviour and expect contact with you and DD.
Also how long will it be before they facilitate her “ secretly “ seeing her father ? Better to be a tiny bit harsh now than have the problems other posters have highlighted further down the line

Better to have fewer, but good people in their lives than more, including the toxic.

My bet is that he sees it as handing money over to you, rather than his child and therefore resents it. Many men are like that!

Not just men, unfortunately. There are stepmothers who resent their partner's ex for expecting him to "support" her by paying maintenance! Crazy, but they really do see it that way. Look how many people describe men as "helping" or "babysitting" when they look after their own children. There's still a strong assumption in our society that children are their mother's responsibility, and that is reflected in attitudes to maintenance.

They dont genuinely love her or care for her wellbeing when the play an active role in financially neglecting her.

Any one who protects their adult child to neglect their grand child is a bad as the shit parent.

These people are not people I would want in my childs life with their serious lack of morals and willingness to assist in the neglect of the child. The absolute nerve of the grand dad to go to the school in place of his scum bag son whilst deliberately helping his son in this situation is awful. He should be too ashamed of his son to even contemplate that.

Your child needs genuine people around her who truly care about her, not these fake surface only grand parents.

All they have to do is give an address that's it. Their disgusting son is definitly a product of his parents they are on the same level by supporting him.

kids dont need granparents and yes theyre lieing to her aswell
No, they don't need grand parents, fathers, teachers, friends, they only need their amazing mum who is perfect and can so no wrong.

Funny how you just have to go into relationship to read posts almost daily about posters who moan about their mum who are far from perfect.

Or maybe it's only mners who make such perfect mums, their kids don't need other loving humans in their lives.

I'd normally defend keeping in contact with grandparents but in this situation I'd cut contact. They don't have your daughter's best interests at heart.