Would you carry on letting grandparents see child after this?

[Slidetotheleft]

DD's (5) father disappeared off the face of the earth 12 months ago. Has paid no maintenance since then. Currently owes over 3k and counting.

DDs grandparents (his parents) know where he is but refuse to tell me. Their argument is that he is trying to rebuild his business/life and cannot do that with the maintenance people on his back. He hasn't even sent DD a birthday card or anything at xmas. The maintenance people cannot find him, his parents know where he is but refuse to tell me and if DD asks them they say they don't know (not sure how long they can carry that on for).

They are currently still seeing DD twice a month (not during lockdown). And speak to her once a week on the phone.

My question is WIBU to say actually whilst you cannot be honest with me or DD I don't want her in your care. I DO NOT want to do this, DD enjoys their company and they love seeing her.

But it really really gets to me that they are happy to see her go without the support she deserves and to actually lie to her face when she asks where her daddy is.

What would you do?

Depends how far you want to push things really....

Once lockdown ends, when you visit you could make sure dd is in her worst, almost outgrown clothes and shoes.

You could sad-facedly ask if they could give her a meal whilst you're there as money is so short, nothing for you of course as you're just concerned for dd only.

Have a little cry about your money problems to get it off your chest then apologise for burdening them but it all gets you down so much etc etc.

Non-paying, non-resident parents really winds me up.

Gosh a difficult one. The GPs are being utter shits towards you and actually also towards your DD in respect of hiding their sun. They buy her a few things? woo bloody hoo.

I'd probably go with explaining to them (in person or in writing, whichever you're more comfortable with) that they are colluding with someone who has completely abandoned his child. And sod the "he's building up a life" she's 5, what about her life? The very minimum DD deserves is the money that he owes to keep her alive.

I'd also mention what PP said that you worry that if their son starts a new family they'll drop DD like a hot potato, and that you feel it's better if their contact is reduced drastically to maybe once a month, with you, and no photos.

A lot of us reach adulthood and look back at some of our family relationships and wonder why the other adults around us at the time didn't step up. This may be your DD in 15 years. It may not, but you can't be sure.

Isn't it just wonderful for these dads who can take breaks from looking after their children, what would happen if a mother did that?

Nothing would happen. Women have been known to walk away from their children. I know one who did.

The bottom line is that the CMS has tracked down a bank account and refused to act on its findings. You don’t need to know where your ex is now, OP, you need the CMS to do its job.

Imagine being torn between your child and your grandchild, it’s a no win situation. No, they shouldn’t be lying about knowing where he is but if they told their granddaughter they did, what a can of worms that would open. She’d be asking to see him, asking you to contact him so she could speak to him, wouldn’t she? If you stop her seeing her grandparents who love her, ultimately it’s the child who’s being punished.

I had similar when my DS was growing up. Never got a penny in CSA but allowed contact with the grandparents. Once DS hit his teens he was vocal about his disdain for his df (with no imput from me, I was always neutral on the subject but eventually after about 10 years his dad came back on the scene and funnily enough everything was my fault) and his gps ended up stopping contact with him and partly due to couldnt bear listening to their son being called out by his own son (my ds) and partly my ds losing his respect for them. Ds is now an adult and I think in hindsight I would have stopped contact earlier/not had any contact with them as I think in the long run this would have been better for DS. The evenutal fallout caused a lot of hurt, which would have been better avoided.

I’m copying janicebattersby s post as it might be a useful idea.

I’d put money on him being in prison. I’ve seen this kind of scenario v often. If he appeared at crown court and no newspaper reporters were there to cover the case then its unlikely anything would come up on google. A friendly local newspaper reporter would be able to search their emails from the court to see if he’s appeared on any previous court lists. I do this for people who ring my newsdesk quite frequently.

I don’t think you are punishing your child by stopping contact.
The problem with these grandparents is that they’re not holding their son to account and therefore they will attempt to rewrite history to justify his rejection of her. This is actually more harmful long term than just fading them out of her life.
I wouldn’t stop contact suddenly, I would just become increasingly unavailable. This will minimise the disruption to your DD and will also make it difficult for them to apply for a contact order through the courts.

I feel for you.
I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with them - they're colluding with their despicable son in keeping you short of the money you should be getting to raise their granddaughter, ffs.

It's not their responsibility to pay his debts, of course - but if they were any kind of decent they certainly wouldn't be trying to "hide him" from you. Chances of him "rebuilding his business" at the moment are slim to none, depending on how legit it is - but if he went bankrupt then he will have troubles getting credit, credit cards, anything other than a basic bank account etc. - so it's not that surprising that the CMS are having difficulties with it.

What to do - I don't know. If they're otherwise decent to your DD and polite to you then they're not entirely awful - but I'd be pushed to be civil to them. I certainly wouldn't be promoting contact - as in, if they don't call first, I wouldn't be calling them - but I wouldn't want to upset DD either, so I'd probably let her still see them. Maybe not as much as before though. Gradual withdrawal, maybe.

Horrible situation though. :(

They're making it clear that their priority is their adult son, and are intentionally shielding him from his responsibilities. They can’t control his behaviour but they can certainly control their own and are choosing to protect him from the ‘maintenance people’ rather than act in the interests of their grandchild. They're telling you that in their view, his finances are more important than DDs welfare.

DD wouldn't be seeing them unsupervised, simply because I couldn't trust them. Any supervised relationship would be dependent on my plans and any lies or comments intended to paint Ex in a better light would be immediately called out, including any 'he's building up his life' type comments. I wouldn't be going out of my way to facilitate a relationship. I don't think I'd cut them out entirely for DDs sake, just heavily reduce how involved they are. School events? Fine. The occasional meet up when I’m there to call them out on lying? Fine. But if they want a full and regular relationship with their grandchild then it's their son's responsibility to facilitate it, not Op's.

If he's in prison that is definitely information they should be sharing. Embarrassment isn't a good enough reason to withhold information.

I would agree with the rewriting of history. It may be fine now, but wait until your ex comes back onto the scene, especially if your child is older and wanting answers like my ds. Unless your ex takes full responsibility of his shitty behaviour (highly unlikely given your description of him) he will seek to place that blame onto someone else, and it will probably be you. Who do you think the grandparents will be loyal to? Im just glad in my case that ds was old enough to realise that his dad was in actual fact an arsehole and see through the nonsense spouted by his dad, and which the grandparents collaborated with.

Agree with the majority of the posters. I would continue with the phone contact at most, but I would make it clear that you will not be facilitating anything further until they prioritise their DGD's well-being.

I would gradually reduce contact to telephone calls only.
These gps are not nice people, they shouldnt try and minimise their role in being complicit in your ex's deception.
They should be offering to pay the missing child support if they genuinely cared about your dd and wanted to shield their son.

Tell them that they can still see her but need to arrange contact through him. That you’re not going to facilitate it anymore but her dad is welcome to. Then it’s up to them what they want to do.

^^
this - absolutely

I think you need to reduce contact.
Any grandparent who finds this behaviour acceptable is mad.
The rights of a 5 yr old, outweigh a grown man, who prob has deceived and lied to them, over his daughter.
Why would you do such s thing?
Madness

Actually, thinking on-they're not good GPs are they because they lie to their GD.

If he had been paying maintenance & that had stopped due to prison, wouldn't Op have been informed?

Wouldn't he be traceable so that CMS would actually know where he is?

If GPs aren't decent people surely a child is better off without them?

I couldn't say nothing as I would be furious. Do they know what percentage of income CM is? If they've been fed a sob story I bet they think it's a much higher percentage than reality. They do not have their granddaughter's best interests at heart if they help their son shirk his financial responsibility

It’s the lie that really sticks in my throat. As for the rest – while he’s certainly behaving very badly, they are putting their son first, which I think is their right and duty. But if they are standing by his refusal to contribute to her, they should contribute what they can afford instead, even if it’s minimal.

I’d have to insist they told her that they knew where he was but didn’t feel able to tell her, and if they wouldn’t, I probably would. Beyond that, I don’t think I’d refuse to let them see her, as long as she wanted to.

these people aren't the type I would be encouraging anyone I loved to have a relationship with. Id tell them that whilst they want to look after their son you want to look after yours so best they have contact through their son in future

Just to add, you yourself have behaved irreproachably, OP. All credit to you.

Tell them that they can still see her but need to arrange contact through him. That you’re not going to facilitate it anymore but her dad is welcome to. Then it’s up to them what they want to do.

All of this.

The apple didn't fall far from the tree. They fucked up one child don't give them the opportunity to poison your daughter. They are bad people. We protect children from bad people.

The grandparents are in a difficult position. I would not penalise them for the faults of their son. I hope he steps up in time but if he doesn't, it is beyond their control. As long as they are good with your daughter and she likes them, let them continue contact with her, it won't hurt you.

I’d continue with a much lower contact relationship and focus on finding other supportive beneficial relationships for your DD. Then you could phase them out entirely

100% this.

Your daughter's wellbeing needs to come first, and while that might not involve ripping her away from knowing her grandparents immediately, over the next few months I'd actively seek out a wider support network so she develops healthier role models and bonds.

A low key, back away from grandparents approach with no drama would be what I'd aggressively focus on.

It's neither your job any more to facilitate these relationships with his relatives, while they help him duck out of parenting (that's not even a fucking option, or shouldn't be, and they're supporting it?!?!)... And not in your daughter's long term best interest.

No doubt they'd paint you as the bad mum keeping them or shit dad away if he ever decides to be her dad again! No fucking way would I encourage their toxic values near mine.

It's a really tough one. I don't envy your position or what you need to do. Personally, I don't think they're helping your DD by lying to her.

The people who say there should be contact re deluded. Have they not read about the lying? Have they not read the pp who have come on to say about how a similar situation worked out far rose on the longterm and that they or there child was far more damaged than of contact was ended.

They have already chosen to support their don in whatever way they see fit as their no 1 priority. Hence they choose to lie for him and it is a choice. What else will they do in the years to come. The granddaughter is not their priority but she is the ops.

Op I think you need to end contact, especially as lock down has led to a natural break. Maybe phonecards if you want but if your daughter is not actively missing them during lockdown then she probably never will. She will also forget as at 5 you don't remember that much especially if you surround yourself with love and support who also love and support her.

When older even from 9, 10 or 11, you can tell her the truth. Children handle the truth far more than we give credit far.

For me there would be no contact because I do not allow people to lie to my children and if they lie then I can't trust them and If I can't trust them then they would be no contact.

If they stopped lying and were otherwise good people then I would reconsider. It's not about punishing anyone, it's about doing the best for the child.

Op I blame the people who lied to me as a child. I think your daughter will lose faith in you if you allow this situation to continue.

Phonecalls not phonecards.

The problem is that your daughter is growing up. She is very young now and not questioning them when they lie, but that won't last forever.

My friend had a flaky exH and she was always honest with her DC about him as they grew up. Her feeling was that kids have to learn that not everyone is reliable or kind. So she stuck to the truth about her ex, doing it as kindly as she could.

I would take the opportunity offered by the current change in routine to reshape the relationship to one you are more comfortable with. You don't owe them anything - their contact with the DC should really be organised by your ex.