To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

I'm not going to reveal my entire past but I have suffered at the hands of men before. I'm still not fussed about a woman with a penis getting changed in a cubicle next to me

Women don't have penises.

Men who identify as women have penises.

At one level I agree. If the toilets say they are for anyone, if the cubicle doors are complete door and not stalls, well, that is fine.

But If I go into a space where I think it is for women, and sit in a cubicle with only a stall door, then yes, I do care if there is a man in the one next door. I feel vulnerable.

Is that OK for women to feel vulnerable in order that a man can feel OK and in the right space?
Why is it that way round? Why aren't we saying - it is OK for a man to sometimes feel like they are not in the right space, in order for the women around him to feel safe?

You may not care, but if you really think you speak for everyone, you need to give your head a wobble

The grammatical stretching undergone in order not to refer to Juno Dawson as 'her' is hilarious

It goes against my beliefs to lie and I’d be banned if I use the correct pronoun for Juno.

Nice for you OP. Now let me introduce you to this lovely concept called other people.

I'm really sick of the femalehumanphobia, trying to deny that female humans exist as a group and shame them for doing so, deny them the right to name themselves or to have any space away from male humans ever, regardless of their own feelings or needs. Female people aren't born to make male people happy. And no phobiaism is ok.

Aggression doesn't always achieve people's cooperation, as some such activists are now beginning to learn.

If the only the TRAs could just Be Kind and respect the views of women and girls.

But in real life most people feel the way you do

I really don’t think this is true. Most people I know want to be kind to trans people but I know of literally only a couple who think they’re actually women and it’s transphobic to have a conversation about the place of sex and gender in society. I’m in my 30s, I suppose for a younger demographic the numbers might be higher.

The tide is already turning, OP.

And I'm delighted.

I would care and think most women would!

Do you think that people who want single sex spaces are afraid that trans people are going to assault them?

Opening up spaces to all creates the opportunity for predators to take advantage. Unfortunately that needs to be considered too, because just as trans people have rights, everybody has rights not to be abused/attacked/assaulted, or to be afraid that they might be. It's not worth sweeping all of that under the carpet.

The movement has lost. Labour supported the trans agenda, how well did they do in the last election?

As did Jo Swinson. Some to be coming to a 'Where Are They Now?' forum near you ...

I care. I also have something to say about 'women with penises', but nevermind.

Fab idea @coronaandtired You have the freedom to support whatever organisations you see fit.

On that note - I’ve just transferred 20 quid to A woman’s place in your name.

I haven't seen any 'angry' comments on here. Just concern about possibility of men using their trans status to ride roughshod over women's safety concerns for themselves and their children.

I have those conversations s often, and I can assure you that in my experience there are a lot more people who feel uneasy about it than the other way around.

I agree with PP, men should accommodate TW not actual women.

I'm not going to reveal my entire past but I have suffered at the hands of men before. I'm still not fussed about a woman with a penis getting changed in a cubicle next to me.

^ Women do not have penises.

@pjj1986

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

*According to these figures, there was one trans person murdered in the UK in that time, and a total of nine trans people were murdered in the UK between 2008 and 2017. That’s an average rate of one victim per year.

A back-of-envelope calculation based on this data would suggest that the average trans person has a one-in-200,000 to one-in-500,000 chance of being murdered in the UK over the course of a year*

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-51491021

There were 241 female victims of murder, manslaughter and infanticide in the 12 months to the end of March 2019, up 10% on the previous year

YANBU to not care who you share intimate spaces with.

YABU to expect other people to not care and to call them names for having boundaries.

The majority of women have gone through their entire lives with the understanding that if they see a male person in a toilet or changing room they could tell them they are in the wrong place. Within the last couple of years this appears to have become unacceptable. But nobody consulted us about the change so how can you possibly know that “most people” are fine with it? All the surveys done are so vaguely worded they are meaningless.

Ah. Mermaids. The CEO's child underwent reassignment surgery in Thailand on their 16th birthday. I'm surprised that Mermaids gets the support it does.

I agree with you OP. & I too find the transphobia on Mumsnet slightly baffling as it's very different to the opinions I come across in real life. But I suppose, like other forms of prejudice, it just comes down to exposure - it's not so easy to label them all as "potential rapists" once you get to know a few.

I'd hate to do a poo in the toilet knowing a man is next to me 🤷🏼‍♀️ or a woman.. but would care less if it was a woman

I have ptsd. Adam's apples regardless of their owner's gender are a huge trigger for me. Places where I feel vulnerable which include anywhere I need to loosen or remove clothes I need to be single sex otherwise I can't access.

I care

Men will always attack women, trans women aren't men

Yes but a man can say he is trans to access female spaces. There have been documented incidents of this. Yet when women say they are worried about this very thing they are labelled transphobic.

There is no dialogue allowed with trans activists, it’s “agree with me or you are transphobic”.

YANBU to call out genuine transphobia.

YABU to assume that most people have the same beliefs, values and concerns as you.

Speak for yourself as much as you like, OP, but you instantly lose credibility when you claim to speak on behalf of large groups of diverse individuals.

On this thread, you've claimed that 'most women' aren't concerned about genitals and that 'most transwomen' aren't concerned about periods (which spectacularly misses the point anyway). You don't speak for others so by all means offer your opinion, but don't dress it up as some universal truth.