To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

Not sure what the OP thinks Mermaids are going to do with the $20 or $30 she's donating in honor of all the disobedient women on Mumsnet. I guess they could buy coffee for everyone in the office once being in the office is a thing people can do again? Or send one lucky staff member a pizza?

Until they lose their Male gentilalia then they are still physically a man.
I dont care how they identify to others in their outer appearance but anyone can throw on a dress, wig and some makeup and claim they are "trans".
I think ALOT of women care about female only spaces, or shall we just roll over and accept it like we have to with everything else?
Fuck that.

I suspect this is a goady thread so that the TRAs on SM can selectively chose bits of posts to report out of context in order to bombard MNHQ with accusations of "transphobia".

It's very boring.

For my part I don't really care much about toilet facilities (although I did in my youth and would still do if I had a daughter) but I do care about refuges, sport, prisons, crime stats, erosion of women's rights politically and socially, hospitals and so on. Frankly, anywhere in which a woman is vulnerable to abuse or exploitation.

To all posters saying that rapists will rape whether or not we allow tw in female toilets, I agree.

The difference comes when a woman reports a male in a female space and he is hauled out, and a woman reports a male in a female space and she is arrested for bigotry and the police decide she needs to correct her thinking.
Legalised gaslighting.

You can't change sex, fuck that noise.

Also I have to point out that "men will always attack women" doesn't seem to have worked out very well as a response to this issue for the politicians who tried it during the runup to the general election. It's the indifference, you see, tends to piss women off.

I’m bowing out now. That tumblr is inhumane, disgusting propaganda. I don’t know how you sleep at night.

@pjj1986 Shut the door on your way out, there's a love.

I sleep wonderfully. Every night. I suspect many others do too.

I agree with you and hate mumsnet "feminism", particularly as trans people are some of the most vulnerable people in society and need protection. But I don't expect a sensible argument on here. Good luck with it.

Letting male sex people who identify as women into women's toilets, also lets male sex people who want to scare/abuse/spy on women into women's toilets. You can't tell the difference just by looking.

Toilets are sex segregated for a reason. For women's safety, privacy and dignity. You might not care/be bothered. Many people do.

Campaign for third spaces if you want though.

@AnyFucker

Really? Because at this exact moment, out of 50 threads on the Feminism chat page alone, 32 of them are about transgenderism. That’s 64%. And the remaining 26% have a fraction of the engagement that the transgenderism ones do.

It’s also important to note that even when a thread isn’t explicitly about trans issues, the comments usually pivot that way. For example, on the thread about Owen Jones, by halfway down the first page transgenderism has been introduced. This is also the case of the thread about the Lib Dems, and the thread about Glinner.

If you’re reading a different mumsnet where the feminism boards aren’t absolutely dominated by discussions about transgenderism, please point me that way because I would love to be there instead.

My neighbour changed sex, she had the works, penis removed, hormones for feminisation. I would be ok if she walked into the same pub loo as me. What I cannot understand is why anyone would want to keep a penis if they are sincere in their desire to trans.

Can you define transphobia please? @coronaandtired

I'm still not fussed about a woman with a penis getting changed in a cubicle next to me

Having read your OP and updates I think you simply don’t understand the opposition to this. Which is a shame.

Perhaps listening to others concerns would be beneficial.

It’s not transphobic to want single sex spaces.

I take it your just here for the fight and nothing else?

I have tenuous links to the orthodox Jewish community. Whatever you think op, 'gender neutral' (whatever that means) WILL prevent women in this community from living a life that you or I might expect. That's not right. Their beliefs shouldn't be ignored.

Muslim teenage girls and those in care will be/are being prevented from going to Guides because they cannot guarantee penis free space.

It matters.

I care & so does every single actual woman I know.

@Rosiejim see my comment above

@coronaandtired. You don't care about toilets, ok, fair enough. A lot of people didn't when this all started.

But...

Do you care about women's sports? Not just about them losing their place on leaderboards but also the risk they take when they go against a male body(especially in contact sports)?

Do you care about women who for whatever reason NEED a female HCP?

Do you care about women that have been raped/assaulted/abused and their need to get support from a female or their need not to share a space with someone with a penis?

Do you care about women not being jailed with convicted rapists?

Do you care about young girls not being forced to change in front of,share living spaces etc with a male bodied person?

Do you care about small business owners (like the beauty industry)that are being sued because either they don't want to cater or don't know how to cater to someone with a penis?

Do you care about violent crime statistics rising in females?

Do you care about grants and projects aimed at young girls/women being taken by boys?

Do you care about promotions, pay raises etc going to transwomen , while women keep being overlooked?

Do you care about sex discrimination and laws becoming obsolete since anyone can be a woman?

Would you care about
Would you care about someone with a penis measuring your breasts?
Would you care about someone with a penis giving you a bikini wax?

I could go on. The toilet/changing rooms are an issue in themselves. It is not a small issue and it already affects women negatively, from actually being attacked to being unable to access some spaces . It was never just about the toilets though. It's about everything and anywhere that women might want or need a single sex space , laws and protection.

it's not so easy to label them all as "potential rapists" once you get to know a few

This is a ridiculous comment.

Being male is a risk factor for committing violence against women. Evidence is ten as women pose no more but no less risk than men. most trans women don’t do so. Nor do most men. Is having single sex or even single gender spaces labelling men “potential rapists”?

Trans women are women and have the right to use women’s toilets. Outside mumsnet and redneck Trumpville America, no one cares and laws are changing around the world to recognize these rights.

To women that don't want transwoman in their toilets, are you happy for transmen to be in yours? Because surely it goes both ways?

That makes no sense whatsoever!

However, as a transman is female, then a transman is entitled to be in my single sex space. They don't possess a weapon of mass destruction!

I'm afraid I do care sometimes. If the toilet block is advertised as unisex, it's in a busy well lit area, and I just need a quick wee, fair enough. If I want to have more privacy, I want a single sex loo or a single cubicle. If it's advertised as single sex then it does need to be single sex, and if it's not that needs to be made clear and and alternative provided.

it's not so easy to label them all as "potential rapists" once you get to know a few.

I do know a few. In fact, I was very much in the 'trans rights/MN is transphobic' camp for a few years. It took a while for me to realise exactly what I was supporting, how far backwards we were going in terms of women's rights and ultimately how some (yes some) men are using being trans as a way to live out their perversions. One person I knew years ago is using their Facebook to post some quite disgusting, highly sexual material which as a man they would have been called out on by now. As a transwoman though, it's just seen as funny and 'brave'.

I dont think all men are potentially rapists, but I do believe women have the right to feel wary and protect themselves in whatever manner they choose. I have also stopped believing that gender is anything but a social concept to keep us in certain stereotypical roles. I feel sorry for anyone who feels they need to change their whole lifestyle and even their physical appearance to accommodate such notions. If a man wants to wear a dress, heels or makeup, they should be entitled to do so. Claming they're women is a whole different matter though, being a woman isn't a label you can just stick on yourself, like saying your vegan or religious. It's simply not a case of 'i think therefore I am'.

People on mumsnet care but I'd say majority don't care.
I don't see why they don't just make unisex toilets and then 1 or 2 private toilets (like disabled but just for people who want to have their "safe space").
Everyone wins then surely?

@AlaskaSometimes, how are they women?

I'm unsure of my opinion on sport. My gut says it should be down to how long they have transitioned and what their testosterone levels are, but I don't know much about it.

You don't do you? Know much about it, that is

MN is so transphobic it's bizarre.