To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

The concern with sport is fairness, isn't it? It's a totally different question

Does having this individual compete against women look safe to you?

www.womenarehuman.com/muscle-bound-male-transgender-dominates-womens-sports/

Public toilets are segregated by sex, not gender.

If you want to use gendered toilets, go campaign to build gendered toilets.

I do care that the places where I’m vulnerable are male free, however I’m not going into the very good reasons why in order to explain and justify myself.
I also care that my niece, mother, sister and all the other women who want male free spaces where they are vulnerable are able to access them.

The answer is no, and no amount of name calling and accusations will shut me up or make me change my mind.

If PPs are fine with it then good for you, but many of us aren’t, and you do not have the right to bully and browbeat us or give away our right to single sex spaces. The next thing men demand might be something you care about, so think on.

I notice pjj has completely ignored the link to the case if a trans woman sexually assaulting a child in the toilet.

I think transwomen are women, and so do transwomen and their friends and families

Ah well they're all wrong. And you can have that 10p on me. I'm sure the £16.10 will make a massive difference to their coffers

OP, if you want to piss next to a penis, feel free to use the gents.

I don’t want to have to share my sex segregated spaces, and it’s not transphobic to say that a person with a penis is not a woman.
Biology exists and I’m tired of being called transphobic for saying so.

I've decided to donate 10p for every post to Mermaids.

I'm not sure why we are supposed to be bothered about this? Your money, do what you want with it

I don’t care for myself. If I caught a man in the toilets with my daughters, he’d be leaving without his dick

Can you define transphobia please.
Wanting female only spaces is NOT 'transphobic', nor is correctly sexing a person.

@coronaandtired, can you tell us why you believe the following?

I think transwomen are women

What makes anyone 'a woman'? Really, I don't get that label in any sense than a biological one, so it does make me wonder what trans people mean when they say they 'feel like a woman/man' rather than the sex they were born.

I certainly believe body dysmorphia is a real condition by the way.

op is here for the screenshots to help with the campaign currently running against MN by the MRAs and TRAs

There’s a long way to go though. I think “bigot” has turned up, but no one yet has been accused of being allied to right-wing religious groups or of being “anti-science”.

Back to the OP, my daughters don’t want to change next to men. That should be enough, why do there actually have to be any more reasons than women and girls saying, “no”.

YgritteSnow

I'm really grateful to the OP for the idea, I've decided I will donate £50 for every ridiculous "you're all transphobes" post to Woman's Place UK

Maybe you’ll gain an ounce of empathy by reading through this.

You said lots of male bodied people who identify as women are being murdered. Where are the stats for that? Personal stories are not legitimate stats, otherwise you would listen to the many many stories of horrendous abuse suffered by women at the hands of Male bodied people and acknowledge that they have a legitimate reason for needing sex segregated spaces.

Why are women being told to accept male bodied people in female spaces, rather than men being told to stop attacking other male bodied people? Where is the campaign from the TRAs demanding that men change their behaviour?

Can't see any transphobia, OP.

Are you trying to stir the shit?

I wonder why.

But why not work with women to find a solution that will work for women Coronaandtired? A large part of the opposition is the crowded and unpleasant nature of most public loos which make women feel they do not have enough privacy. I personally do not see it as helping women when only the women's toilets are reclassified as gender neutral because they have urinals in the men's. Women also need more loos than men because of their anatomy and the greater frequency of continence problems. I would like to see properly designed accessible cubicles for everyone. This is going to require a lot of rebuilding, not just changing a label on the door.

As others say, there are other reasons why some women will always want single sex spaces. It is not transphobic to say a Muslim or Jewish woman or a woman who has been abused have rights too.

I think it depends on the setting. Big establishments like shopping centres (remember those ) it makes sense to have single sex, family, disabled, and neutral toilets. Small places like coffee shops, gender neutral self contained cubicles make sense. I actually like mixed changes cubicles for swimming, meant my girls could be with their dad beyond 8.

What about a convicted rapist out on bail OP? Should he, dressed as a man and looking like a man, be allowed to use whatever bathroom he chooses? If not why not? Why should we not believe him that he is fact a she. If anyone can go anywhere dependant on how they feel how do we keep male predators away from vulnerable women?

You see what you are actually stating is that you don't mind if a lot of women - orthodox religious women, women who have suffered abuse etc are excluded from public life entirely.

It is estimated that 0.6% of men are trans, whilst 5.2% of UK women are orthodox religion - jewish, muslim or catholic and would be excluded. Does this seem fair? Why are trans people more important than other people?

OP you can donate as much as you like.

The movement has lost. Labour supported the trans agenda, how well did they do in the last election?

I've decided to donate 10p for every post to Mermaids.

They’ll be very glad if it, for when that whole misogynistic shit pile comes tumbling down.

OP, by all means donate your money to mermaids or whatever charity you want. Not sure why you’ve said that.

But please understand - women who have been raped, such as me and countless others, are triggered to feel unsafe by the fact of someone having a penis. It was someone’s penis that raped me, not their gender identity.

Plus you will know that trans women offend at the same rate as men, so being trans doesn’t remove them from that circle of risk.

I understand having gender dysphoria is distressing and being told you can’t use women’s toilets as a trans women would be very upsetting. I can use empathy, and see that. Please try to utilise a bit of empathy yourself and understand why So many reasonable, liberal women don’t think it’s as simple as “couldn’t care less about someone’s genitals”.

Strange perspective. I’ve never been cornered in a club and sexually assaulted by another woman (and yes, I have been to gay clubs where lesbians were everywhere) but I have been assaulted by a number of men.
Whether someone is transgender or not is irrelevant, I just want to be safe. You cannot ignore the fact that the owners of penises disproportionately harm women. Therefore I don’t want one in my bathroom space in order to minimise the risk I am harmed.

I don't care about genitals, I care about the whole body. And if that body is male it can GTF out of female-only spaces.

If even just one woman says no to males in female spaces then as far as I'm concerned the opinion of those who do consent is null and void.

I'll be fucked if I see Muslim women, Jewish orthodox women, rape survivors etc forced out of public life because of the feelings of less than 1% of the population.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

But in real life most people feel the way you do.

You're not qualified to speak to the opinions of 'most people'.

Superficially, people do often take this view, I'm inclined to agree. But this is because the definition of a trans person has morphed vastly from the idea of a post-op transsexual which people tend to associate with that term. Actually point out that the majority of trans woman have intact male genitalia, and are classed as a woman merely because they say they're a woman, and watch jaws clang and opinions do a rapid about-face.

Penises have no place in woman's private changing areas. As a one-time victim of gang rape, I object strongly to the principle that a trans woman's comfort takes precedence over mine.

I occasionally deal with trans people during the course of my work. Any one of them would tell you that I treat them respectfully, adhere to their choice of name and pronoun, and will go over and above the call of duty to protect to the hilt anyone who I see as a victim of transphobia - REAL transphobia, that is, which is an incredibly ugly form of discrimination.

Women voicing concerns about their boundaries is not transphobia. And the more the difference between these issues is eroded, the less sympathy I predict the MRAs will attract. Aggression doesn't always achieve people's cooperation, as some such activists are now beginning to learn.