To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

All this discussion about which toilets transmen should or shouldn't use (ie. trying to make out us women are being transphobic, and trying to catch us out) is disingenuous, because they are not the ones aggressively demanding to invade spaces, and even if they did, they are not a threat to the opposite sex (ie. men).

I have been assaulted by men, more than once. I do not care if trans women use the women's toilets because they are women...

And to the person who said, why aren't they asking men to 'give up' 'their' spaces... Surely trans men are using the male bathrooms too?

You've just quoted me saying it's a good idea, without including that in the very next sentence I acknowledged that people wouldn't want it marked as a 'transgender' toilet.

@yelyah22

I have been assaulted by men, more than once. I do not care if trans women use the women's toilets because they are women..

Ok, let’s say you actually believe that humans can change sex, if TW are indeed women then fine - but what’s to stop men pretending to be TW? How do we women asses that?

If it’s nothing to do with us then why have we spent another 5 hours ‘debating’ it

Because theres a minority group of activists, including the op,who seem to think it is our problem and trying to make it so. I'm simply pointing out that it isn't

Yelyah

What is a woman?

I care a lot.

Some new posters who want to open up women’s spaces to all seem to have an uncanny similarity to usernames of long-standing FWR posters.

It’s not the first time. What a strange thing to do.

I have been assaulted by men, more than once. I do not care if trans women use the women's toilets because they are women

You may not care. Many many other women do. Your lack of caring for women's rights do not trump other women's concerns and right to a same sex space. And transwomen are not women. If they were, there wouldn't be a problem would there. The reason there is a problem is because they are not women. I know that. And you know that too.

Word of warning to the TRA supporters. Trans allies are being 'cancelled' and driven off Twitter for daring to speak on behalf of trans people, so dont think being ki d will protect you in any way

Yes I do care because a person with a dick is stronger than me and could over power me if they wished

So I said how would you sign that on the door? A T would be one way

Yes, then went on to immediately say that would be dangerous for them.
Bit of a weird thing for you to suggest then, given that venues such as small cafes have had no problem identifying that their single, enclosed cubicles with a sink are for both sexes for years.

I think toilets are red herring actually. Prisons, sport, changing rooms hospitals and dormitories are a bigger issue.

@Rosiejim so you don’t necessarily object to TW using women’s toilets per se, but are afraid of men posing as TW to attack women?

and even if they did, they are not a threat to the opposite sex (ie. men)

This all falls down to saying all men are a threat though, cos men.
Not all of us think or generalise like that.

This all falls down to saying all men are a threat though, cos men.
Not all of us think or generalise like that.

That’s great. Then there’s no problem with males who identify as trans using the male toilets. Females who don’t want to share, will feel safe and males who identify as trans will be safe. Job sorted.

Or perhaps people say males as a class are dangerous to females as a class because of crime stats?
You know, those records we're now distorting to accommodate feelings.

Surely the answer is simply to provide a number of closed cubicles with sinks and facilities for both sexes within and move away from the cubicles with loos and communal sinks outside if one wanted to be truly fair to both sexes and maybe a campaign to encourage people to be hygienic in those spaces?

But as others have said, it's not just about toilets is it?

@Rowantree2020

@Rosiejim so you don’t necessarily object to TW using women’s toilets per se, but are afraid of men posing as TW to attack women?

I do object to TW being in single sex female spaces because I believe I have the right to privacy and to undress away from a penis. As does my teenage niece.

I also believe the erasing of women’s boundaries - And telling women to ignore their instincts is dangerous

I also believe that some men will use the afore mentioned erasing of boundaries to attack women. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but men ARE a threat to women statistically

It’s not just toilets and changing rooms. Also sports - refuge shelters etc

I also want the right to ask for a female to examine me in certain medical situation

I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has All right.

You don't care but I do. That you don't care doesn't mean I have to deal with a man in single sex spaces just because you don't care if he's there. It doesn't mean any women and girls in shops should have to consider that there are males in the change rooms when they want to try on clothes without having to wonder who's looking and why they are there.

What you care about means fuck all, and I don't want to share women-only spaces. You can write that on the nearest 'be kind' sign and stick it in your nose.

@oldqueen1969 no it’s not just about toilets, but maybe it’s a case of tackling one aspect at a time. Right there is a potential compromise for one aspect. There are undoubtedly others if people were willing to listen and work at it.

It’s odd how there’s no poll with this thread - clear, unambiguous binary YABU/YANBU.

Maybe that wouldn’t have as much impact for advertisers as screenshots of “transphobia”. Maybe advertisers would then work out that actually, yes, most women do care about single-sex spaces.

But why should we compromise? Why is it not acceptable for women to say 'no'?

Right there is a potential compromise for one aspect.

What compromise do you suggest?

But why should we compromise? Why is it not acceptable for women to say 'no'?

Good question.