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AIBU?

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Original poster

To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

999 replies

coronaandtired · 18/05/2020 10:54

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
PheasantPlucker1 · 18/05/2020 20:30

Transmen cant be men cos theyre female.

Men are male.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 18/05/2020 20:32

Ok please for the love of god could someone show me the alleged transphobia on this thread? Just one example?

A question I asked upthread which no one can seem to answer -

If TW are allowed into these spaces then why not all men? What makes them different, being as most TW do not physically transition in any way. After all not all men are predators so where's the issue?

popolopodous · 18/05/2020 20:33

If I don't have to care then the trans person can use a cubicle within their biological sex and not care too.
I do care though and I would not consider myself transphobic. I must confess I do not understand how you suddenly declare yourself a woman though. I would be interested to know. And as someone who suffers severe health problems from ridiculously heavy periods I'd like to know why some people who were not born a woman are flailing about complaining it's their 'time of the month' again. Have mine cheers.
I wish declaring myself a man got rid of my time of the month as quick as some trans women seem to acquire a period.
I do understand to be tolerant of others but not at the expense of my existing rights.

crochetandshit · 18/05/2020 20:36

I think the transphobia is women saying "no"

EstherEliza · 18/05/2020 20:38

I'm not a scientist so I can't explain further but it's just not all there is

The not all there is is simply a feeling. Those feelings don't make them the opposite sex though. They are still what they were born as, with either more masculine or feminine traits. That's it really. That's people. That's what makes us different from eachother. But it doesn't change our sex.

EstherEliza · 18/05/2020 20:42

So no answer about the harm that trans people would face from using a toilet for trans people

Why would they come to anymore harm in a trans toilet? Where's the harm coming from? Other transwomen? 😮 transmen? Who?

Pertella · 18/05/2020 20:43

It's a threadabouttrans issues, so stands to reason it'd be about trans

Ja, that's why I said "Not long tilthe 'I'm bored with all the trans talk, all people ever talk about is trans, why do you always force me to talk about trans' " phase of the cycle

As in, something that will happen in the future Hmm

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 18/05/2020 20:44

so no answer about the harm that trans people would face from using a toilet for trans people

I don’t think many people think a transperson toilet is a good idea

Most of the time when ive seen it suggested its that certain toilets are gender/sex neutral

My preference would be a ladies, a gents and a gender neutral option whenever possible

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 18/05/2020 20:46

Apologies

Gender/sex obviously is multi sex

EnidSugden · 18/05/2020 20:47

Yes there’s no need to label a toilet “Trans”.

The third option would be for anyone.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 18/05/2020 20:47

I don’t think many people think a transperson toilet is a good idea

It's been suggested on this thread as an alternative though.
A third space for trans people.

crochetandshit · 18/05/2020 20:49

Why would they come to anymore harm in a trans toilet? Where's the harm coming from? Other transwomen?transmen? Who?

Well indeed.
Hurt feelings is another option?
Or that they're outed. That's an answer I've seen, proven because tw aren't confronted in the women's toilets because they pass so well. Definitely not that women are afraid to confront males who don't give a fuck about boundaries.
Possibly backed up by some "gotcha" photos of heavily posed and hugely filtered photos.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 18/05/2020 20:49

A third space for trans people.

Yes a unisex/neutral toilet.

What's wrong with that?

crochetandshit · 18/05/2020 20:50

Sure but you touted the idea that it would be marked by a T on the door lemonade

EstherEliza · 18/05/2020 20:51

A third space for trans people

Well that's the whole point isn't it. We wouldn't need a third space if people were happy to use the toilets of their own sex. But a gender neutral third space is the ideal scenario. Some men would use it. Some women would use it. Trans men and transwomen would use it if they didn't want to use the toilets of their biological sex. Perfect.

Dances · 18/05/2020 20:53

I guess women who care about which genitals are next to them might be those who have the biology which is able to be raped by the opposite kind of genitals.

You know, inny vs outy and enabled by increased physical strength.

Not lipstick and fabulousness. Or because someone's trans pal is lovely

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 18/05/2020 20:53

The third option would be for anyone

I’d use it if the queues were shorter...

TorkTorkBam · 18/05/2020 20:54

If a transman passed as a male then surely they would use the gents and nobody would ever know.

The two transmen I know personally are under 5'5 and only pass as male in staged photos. You'd not worry about seeing them in the loos any more than you'd get stressed about butch lesbians (which is what they actually look like plus some unfortunate teenage bumfluff facial hair).

isabellerossignol · 18/05/2020 20:57

It's been suggested on this thread as an alternative though.
A third space for trans people.

Yes, I said that I think it's a good idea. I can see as the conversation has moved on that there are reasons why people might not want a third space to be specifically for transgender people. But that's fine, it can be gender neutral, for those who don't care one way or the other. Really the important thing is that biological women and girls, and biological men and boys, get the option of having privacy from the opposite sex.

Having said that, I do read an awful lot of articles online and comments on Twitter etc talking about the trans community, and how trans is something to be proud of. And I can never square the circle because in the next breath the same person will be saying that they just want to blend in and no one needs to know that they are transgender. The illogicality of it makes my mind boggle.

TheShoesa · 18/05/2020 20:58

A third space isn't 'othering'

A third, mixed sex space could be used by anyone who didn't feel comfortable in the correct single sex provision and those who aren't bothered.

Then someone like me, who wants to keep single SEX provision would be happy, and people like the OP who is happy with mixed sex could use the third space , along with the transwomen and transmen who don't wish to use the provision that is correct for their sex for whatever reason.

Not othering, more an inclusive solution that keeps everyone happy.

Rowantree2020 · 18/05/2020 21:01

“It's nothing to do with women because it's not our problem”

If it’s nothing to do with us then why have we spent another 5 hours ‘debating’ it?

OldQueen1969 · 18/05/2020 21:03

It is something of a paradox if a group wants to be both visible and recognised and accommodated but at the same time have no attention drawn to their uniqueness.

As others have mentioned, old school transexuals just quietly got on with it and we knew them personally, and had little reason to think it was any of our business because they didn't frame their personal lives as an invasion of anyone else's spaces. "New trans" has such a broad spectrum and sometimes even when attempts at sympathy or understanding are made it is seen as an attack because it's no longer about people distressed by their body not matching up with their perceived personality to a level where adjusting their physique is a helpful treatment, and the reasons for their demands are deemed none of our business - we should just capitulate because they are unhappy with the status quo. When that extends to legislation that a significant number of transexuals are also uncomfortable with, and who are then attacked for their input and concerns, the whole picture has to be re-appraised for everybody's sake.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 18/05/2020 21:10

Im not scared of transwomen.

What I am scared of is violent predatory pervs throwing on a dress and a fugly wig and wanking in the toilet next to me, recording me, or accusing me of all sorts like the canadian with the tampon fetish did to a female journalist, or plain old fashioned violence and sexual assault.

Maria53 · 18/05/2020 21:11

I care and I am not transphobic for wanting to retain womens single sex spaces.

I don't want to be alone in an enclosed space with a man I don't know. This would especially be a disaster in schools imo, shouldn't be allowed for toilets in schools to become gender neutral.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 18/05/2020 21:12

Sure but you touted the idea that it would be marked by a T on the door lemonade

Yes because of comments like this that wanted trans only people

Yes, I said that I think it's a good idea.
and
A third space for trans people
It's been suggested on this thread as an alternative.

Have seen it mentioned before several times on here (here being MN)

So I said how would you sign that on the door?
A T would be one way.

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