To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

Why don't you think women should just get over themselves and accept trans men?

Well we do, quite a lot of us - but when we accept them as female, certain characters come along and tell us that it's all too confusing and we can't possibly do that, so we'd better just let all the men in instead.

That or we get accused of transphobia.

Id be very very happy with 3rd spaces.

All those people like OP who just dont care can use them. Fabulous.

Rowantree2020

What compromise is there?
We have already seen TW taking womens places in sport and politics.
We have already had TW assulting females in in prison.
TW are skewing the criminal records.
Females sex based services are no longer single sex.
We are watching while a 14 yo girl fights her school against the removal of her sex based rights.

All I see are females losing out to males while being called names and threatened.

What is the compromise?

@pertella I rest my case.

It blows my mind that when faced with endless, articulate, genuine reasons for why a lot of women and girls would feel not only uncomfortable , but actually frightened and traumatised by self id transwomen using toilets, these reasons are just dismissed.

If I had a desire to do something whatever it was, and I was told that by doing it I would be potentially traumatizing another human being, making young people scared, I would feel like an utter arsehole. And I would actively search for an alternative. Particularly if doing said act was entirely avoidable and there was a solution available that wouldn't upset other people - such as a third space.
Why would you choose to do the thing that would potentially upset and TRAUMATISE people?? When theres an alternative?? Thats the opposite of being liberal, that's just being a selfish bastard.

OK then...

I care as do my dds. It’s not transphobic to care. That word gets thrown about when women’s rights are stood up for it.

Just two heavily entrenched camps convinced of their views and unwilling to listen or compromise

The only compromise that trans activists want is unfettered access to women only spaces. Hardly a compromise is it. More like an attempted takeover. A third space would work. But they don't want that because then they don't get to make women validate their identity.

@datun I was stating the fact that people aren’t listening, not expressing a view as to whether they should listen.

It blows my mind that when faced with endless, articulate, genuine reasons for why a lot of women and girls would feel not only uncomfortable , but actually frightened and traumatised by self id transwomen using toilets, these reasons are just dismissed

I think eventually they will find out for them selves. When their employer has a group that's 50 percent men and 50 percent trans women and they miss out on an opportunity while their employer raves about how diverse their panel is ...

Or when they have to validate aomwknws identity at the hospital at their lowest point needing intimate care.

Or whatever.

The day they realise what it really means will come.

You might not care, op, but are you a 13 year old girl being told it's wrong to be concerned about your personal safety ?

Someones identity

Stupid phone

So you’re ok with toilets being unisex. Great.

Some people aren’t though.

Can you really not understand why that might be?

I once saw a comment on FWR (where hearhoovesthinkzebras frequents) that said
"Does anyone else hear hooves and think whataboutery?"

Transwoman identifies as woman . We are the same.
Woman says, hum that's not what I understand by the word woman, I do not identify with your definition of woman. We are different

The woman is of course wrong, hateful and transphobic

The transwoman can identify however they see fit, the woman can't

This has a familiar feel to it...

Why would you choose to do the thing that would potentially upset and TRAUMATISE people?? When theres an alternative?? Thats the opposite of being liberal, that's just being a selfish bastard.

Because trans rights activitists who fight for this are misogynist and their AIM is to attack women's rights. That is the bottom line. The trans people that I KNOW are not actually like this. They DO get it. They DON'T want to take female spaces on these terms. Ironically, one of the main reasons that they get it is because in many cases they too have some understanding of what it is like to feel physically targeted, to feel they have to be 'on the alert' in the same way women feel.

Trans rights activists in many cases don't actually speak for trans people. They are bigots using the trans 'movement' as yet another way to attack women and girls, oh and especially lesbians, significantly - as if you needed another reason why lumping trans activists under the LGB umbrella is nuts!

Trans activists and trans people can very much be two very different things, I have found.

but are you a 13 year old girl being told it's wrong to be concerned about your personal safety?

Or a 13 year old girl told that to be same sex attracted means accepting penises?

HeyDuggeewhatchadoin

Oh, I'm so flattered that you pay so much attention to me.

It’s sad that a lot of people here aren’t even willing to seek compromise. Both ‘sides’ will get nowhere. I’ve got to get back to the real world.

Karen White identified as a woman when he was sectioned and then raped a pregnant 19 year old. Karen was then put in a woman's prison (for stabbing a neighbour who misgendered Karen) and sexually assaulted 7 women before being moved to a male prison. The 19 year old only report the crime once Karen was in the press for sexual assault as she was terrified and did not know how to report it.

Why does a mentally unwell pregnant teenager not matter to you as much as a rapist?

I cannot understand why women do not prioritise and support vulnerable women. I despair.

Haven't RTFT.

OP you might not care but that's irrelevant. You're one individual. Other individuals - many, in fact, do care.

HeyDuggeewhatchadoin

It’s hilarious the regularity with which they appear.

“Don’t worry chaps, I’m here to defend you”

meet me in the middle said the unjust man

I step forward, he steps back

Meet me in the middle said the unjust man

datun I was stating the fact that people aren’t listening, not expressing a view as to whether they should listen.

Ah yes, that unknown meaning of the word 'fortunately', that means 'not having a view'.

I care in the sense that men (as a class) attack, rape and assault women. Creating a brave new world where spaces are mixed sex/gender-neutral and/or where any man has right of access to women-only spaces (which will be the case as self-ID is normalised) automatically makes women and girls less safe.

This isn't about trans issues, it's about living in a society where one in four women has been sexually assaulted by a man. Giving men automatic access to spaces that are sex segregated for a reason makes us less safe. It's gaslighting of the worst sort to pretend that isn't the case.