To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

When was the last time you saw a woman take a selfie on the ladies loo with a ‘ahahahaha - look at me in with the girls!’ Look on their faces (or a sword)? That would be never. The only ones I see by women are when they are at a party and have found a full length mirror to snap their dress and hairdo.

Trans women aren’t women.

Left wing nonsense doesn’t change biology.

people sharing pictures of people with masculine features in dresses and such really aren't helping those with valid points to be taken seriously

Masculine features like a penis?

Could trans be regarded as being in a state of flux?

It would seem not.

Not when there seems to be pressure (whether internally or externally applied) to transition fully. Of course, once hormones are administered and surgeries had ... there is no reset button. Detransitioners have changes that cannot be changed back (eg. Testosterone deepens the voice and leaves facial hair and this cannot be physically changed back apparently) This is true also for obtaining a GRC, you cannot cancel a GRC once you have one.

I've just read the Stonewall definition of trans in order to educate myself.

Does it mean non-conformity to social constructs surrounding gender

Pretty much, yes.

In my own case I can also tick off 'gender dysphoria' and 'pretending to be male' (it was the internet; I was fifteen). Denial of sex doesn't appear to be listed as a signifier of transness though. For Lemonade's benefit I quote:

Sometimes, people assume that being trans is about feeling you are the ‘opposite’ gender. This is true for some trans people, but not for others.

Fine in a cubical maybe, but they then come out! I don’t want to be that close to a penis wielding nut. I’m yet to be re-educated that this is not a degenerative brain disease.

To women that don't want transwoman in their toilets, are you happy for transmen to be in yours? Because surely it goes both ways?

Yes, because a transman is biologically an adult human female. As offending is very much sex based, women would not be at increased risk with another biological woman in the next cubicle.

That's why it's not transphobic to have sex based safe spaces. It's about risk, safety and women's peace of mind.

There seems to be two camps in trans from what I see though. Trans who want to / are being encouraged to physically transition, and trans who are trans but retain the right not to transition because the physical bit should be irrelevant......

It's quite the conundrum.....

I'm quite happy for transmen and female non binary identifying people to use female spaces if they wish. They are female and have every right to be there.

Less of a conundrum when you do a breakdown by age and sex, OldQueen.

Effeminate boys and traumatised girls - children, in other words - are encouraged to alter their bodies.

Heterosexual adult males are celebrated for remaining intact.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras it's a fact that introducing mixed sex toilets in schools has led to bullying by boys towards girls.. and girls avoiding using the school toilets, girls in schools have also tried to protest their mixed sex toilets after they were introduced.

It is indeed a conundrum OldQueen. Did you know some transwomen are called truscum if they don’t agree with the activists line of thinking ? Worth a google if you had any doubt that there is differing opinions in the community itself.

A question OP.

If TWAW then the definition of a woman as an adult human female can no longer true.

How then is it possible for someone to claim an identity their philosophy has erased?

If a man wants to assault women in women-only spaces, he will, regardless of rules

So I presume neither of you bother locking your house or your car, @notreallybotheredaboutausernam and @zscaler

Oddly enough the woke have a huge amount of empathy for transwomen who are scared to go into men's facilities while totally dismissing women's concerns.

I care because women are entitled to single sex facilities sports and so on. 98% of sexual assaults are carried out by those who are male. Amazingly transitioning does not lower any of these sexual offending statistics almost as if these people remain male no matter how they dress or present themselves.

The point @Lemonade is that, given the lack of other definition from you and others, if feeling like a woman is all it takes to be a transwomen then anyone could be, including Shania Twain.

Many GC threads have discussed whether we, the becunted, dictionary type women, feel like a woman or whether we just are... Many like me have no idea what feeling like a woman would, well, feel like. I am me. So I think I could try it out, feel like a woman, which would make me a transwomen, especially if I said it out loud, like Evey other transwoman.

See how fucking convoluted that got?

That's why you really do need to define your terms.

What is a woman? isn't even a trick question!

Well the government seem to agree that single-sex spaces are important.

OP, you appear to have missed my questions. It's understandable, of course, in a fast moving thread. For your benefit, I'll c&p here.

Can you please explain to me why it is transphobic to not want male people in female toilets/changing rooms/prisons/refuges.

Do you also think it's transphobic to say that humans can't change sex?

Thanks.

Open to answers from others who call us transphobic as I'd love to understand more.

trans people are some of the most vulnerable people in society and need protection

It must take some serious mental gymnastics to think that a group of adult, mostly white, heterosexual males who have grown up with all their male privilege, instantly become so fragile and vulnerable, above all others (especially females) simply by saying they are now women!

The vulnerable group are in fact the teenage girls who are being groomed into thinking they are actually boys because they are sexually attracted to females or because they are autistic or escaping abuse. Being sold 'trans' as the fix all solution.

If a man wants to assault women in women-only spaces, he will, regardless of rules

There are many things that can make it much harder for him to do so and we must make sure that is always the case. Introducing biological men into women's spaces does quite the opposite.

In the US, Target introduced mixed changing rooms. Subsequent research shows that peeping tom and sexual offences increased dramatically from the date that change was made.

I still want to know why OP thinks trans folk care so deeply about the genitals of the people peeing next to them.

Transwomen ARE women. So your arguments that it is no longer a “single sex” space are invalid.

Don't confuse sex with gender. A penis is inherently male. If it was female you'd be able to birth a child through it.

Biology matters.

Also what about teenage girls being bullied by boys when they hear the crinkle of their pad and tampon packets or the sounds of them using the toilet? It leads to girls avoiding using toilets (in schools).

It reads quite clearly to me that the poster believes one reason why girls should be able to have single sex toilets is because they are uncomfortable with boys in them, and otherwise they may avoid using toilets at school.

I agree with her. Many people do. In fact, petitions have been made on this subject. Plan International have done some research on this and a Womens place.

You somehow decided to interpret her post to mean - As though if only men and boys didn't exist then all forms of bullying and assault would simply disappear. It's ridiculous.

I mean, really? What a bizarre out-there reading/claim.

And what a strange way to divert from the facts that many girls and women want single sex toilets, prisons, sports, refuges etc, not only for safety reasons but for reasons of privacy, dignity and fairness too.

I care. Not just toilets but also wards, sports, prisons, refuges.

I am also amazed at the responses here: OP says no one minds sharing with anyone who claims they are a transwoman, then pages and pages of people saying they do care, then belittling of those people who care by a happy few. Maybe those happy few need to realise they are just that: the small minority who support mixed sex facilities.

When I was at school a young girl my age was badly raped in the public toilets at a national trust place. Not by a trans person, but by a man who had hid in the womens toilets. Now 20 years ago if someone had spotted him going in he'd probably have been challenged. These days he probably wouldn't be. So while I'm not saying trans people are sex attackers. I'm saying that unisex toilets make it easier for a sex attacker to lurk about unchallenged and for that reason alone they shouldn't be allowed.

This is why I don't like it. Not because I'm afraid of Trans people, but because allowing them means bad people are less likely to be challenged. It seems an unnecessary risk.