To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

Its not about caring that there might be someone with different genitals in the next cubicle individually, but i dont want female only spaces to be a thing of the past. The simultaneous widening of the term trans, to mean anyone that feels like theyre not like other men, and the ability for any bloke to self identify as a woman and then they are one, and the demonisation of any woman who thinks actually this is not ok, is not just trouble brewing - its already put women in danger.

I care. For me, my daughter, my niece, my mum and MIL, SIL, friends, and all women who want single-section spaces.

coronaandtired you don't care, but what about the young girls who do mind and also don't want boys in their changing room? Do you agree the girls should be punished?

P.s Love this from @GinDaddyRedux 'They have the right to be safe. Their safety is not less important than the right of a person to access the toilet facility which bears the symbol they identify with most closely'

It's quite amusing seeing the desperation in someone trying to make it all about them as per usual

Ohhhh right, I see.
It makes me laugh.
Can say something about a comment,or poster, but if you respond in any way, its making it "all about me?"
That'd be those putting words in my mouth so I'm questioning WTF, are we just playing make our own stuff up what was said to fit narrative?
Sorry, sorry, forgot can't question in any way!
-

If a woman can’t be a trans woman, because she is a woman, what is a trans woman and what do they have in common with women, that makes them women.

Having been doing a spot of research in this area, I can tell you there will not be an answer forthcoming.

The reason I'm not allowed to identify as a woman under the trans umbrella (even though it's a very wide umbrella) is because male "trans women" would like to keep that label for themselves.

They get proper stroppy if you insist you're a female trans woman, because it highlights their delusion.

I care. I also dislike floor to ceiling cubicles due to a man pushing his way in a behind me and sexually assaulting me and choking me. Nobody could hear because there was no gaps, and nobody lingered to wash their hands outside because everything was contained in the cubicles.
But obviously my opinion doesn't count like yours does because, what? you're more special than me?

The reason I'm not allowed to identify as a woman under the trans umbrella (even though it's a very wide umbrella) is because male "trans women" would like to keep that label for themselves

Ha, good point. The trans umbrella is so wide now that it covers most people. So what is the word for someone who fits the Stonewall definition of trans, but doesn't identify as the opposite sex? As in, a woman who is trans (as per Stonewall definition).

I remember a YouTube video I saw last year of a transwoman who used the female toilet, here in the UK, and was questioned by a small group of teenagers about why they were there. What did that person do? Followed the girls up the street yelling at them while filming.

But of course, instances like this NEVER happen! And I am sure that the girl's totally deserved to be frightened by a full grown adult male following them down the street yelling. Because they were worried about their safety and questioned that person. Oh and they were in their uniforms on the video too .... Nope. Just no!

Transwomen ARE women. So your arguments that it is no longer a “single sex” space are invalid.

At what point is that true? The first fleeting idea in their heads or when they've had surgery? The first one certainly isn't.

Spend 5 minutes on Twitter on the #girlslikeus search and you can see why it's all a massive fucking concern.

OP, you said that trans folk were not interested in a poster’s periods; you were the one to generalise. I just replied to your “argument”. Quick search on SM and you’ll
find very outspoken transwomen being were much obsessed with periods.

1. because they have them apparently, 2) because women who have periods should never talk about them as that’s transexclusionary.

Transwomen ARE women. So your arguments that it is no longer a “single sex” space are invalid.

At what point does the coronavirus switch over to reacting like this is a woman not a man? How about prostate cancer?

So what is the word for someone who fits the Stonewall definition of trans, but doesn't identify as the opposite sex? As in, a woman who is trans (as per Stonewall definition).

Funnily enough, Lemonade and I were discussing this just the other day.

According to her I'm a trans man. She was quite insistent that I can't be a trans woman.

Still waiting for her verdict on what my AGP ex, who has no delusions of being female and would never dream of using women's facilities, is allowed to call himself. I did ask repeatedly, but all I got was tumbleweed.

As though if only men and boys didn't exist then all forms of bullying and assault would simply disappear. It's ridiculous.

But no one has said that Hooves. Why are you saying they did?

How are Trans women women? Why do you think this?
Men identify as trans women or women because:
A) it’s a fetish
B) dysphoria
C) They like the attention
D) All or combination of above.

It is important to note, whatever the reason, the biology remains unchanged.

Despite sexist notions we receive from a young age that boys love trucks and girls fairies etc, it doesn’t alter biology when that is not the case. 1950s housewife’s would be non-binary today, because nobody exclusively follows sexist stereotypes or expectations.

According to her I'm a trans man. She was quite insistent that I can't be a trans woman

I was just questioning how you, who says you are a biological woman, could be a trans woman?
Because as far as I knew if you're a biological woman who feels trans that'd make you a trans man.
Apparently you're a biological woman who feels like a woman but is also trans, so hey you do you.

What I don't want is a male who identifies as male, being in the loo next to me, where the sink area is open for all.

Why can't all men come in though? After all NAMALT with thoughts of rape and violence.

Literally what is the difference between my DH and a transwoman (and let's all remember that the majority do not take any steps to physically transition, it's just make up, rip off ugg boots and feelz)?

not actually expecting an answer as there haven't been to any other questions which concern adult human female safety and privacy

@Nottherealslimshady
Men will always attack women, trans women aren't men

I think you'll find that if they had a DNA test they most certainly would be men.
This link shows, however, that transwomen most certainly do attack women and children. transcrimeuk.com

I very much care about sharing loos and changing rooms with males. For myself, my elderly female relations, and my young teenage daughters.
I want my dds to be able to use loos when out, without worrying that a male might come in after them and push them into a cubicle.
Trans identifying or not, it makes not difference, as trans males commit crimes at the same rate as any other male. We keep males out of single sex space for the safety and dignity of females.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz it isn’t just adult human females, all human females. Although perhaps we will start trying to milk bulls soon. Yes, they just don’t have the udders, but there’s something in the walk that screams cattle.

TBF I imagine this thread has been cooked up because of the Audible thing.

I care, and every woman I know cares.

Are you (and your sock puppets) he best representative they could send? I think you need to brush up a bit.

Transwomen ARE women.

Women are adult human females. Females don't have Y chromosomes. It is impossible to alter one's sex chromosomes. Facts are facts.

Why is sex segregation transphobia? How is women not happy about the trend of making loos 'unisex' transphobia?

Want to pee with males? Use the men's loos then. I assume you are happy to change and shower alongside males when you go to the gym? Or lie in your nighty on a mixed-sex hospital ward?

I don't think so. Who has told you that this is transphobia? Why have they told you this - what's in it for them?

Oh, I wouldn't say I feel like a woman, Lemonade. Because that's a meaningless statement.

But trans is an adjective, and I meet the description as per Stonewall.

Thank you for making it clear that you view "denying one's reproductive sex" as the defining feature of 'trans'. These discussions are always so much easier when everyone is clear on terms.