To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains yes but there aren't different bathrooms for 20 year olds and ones for 60 year olds. Having an identity clearly isn't the issue, there's obviously a reason why those who are women or identify as women don't want to share potentially vulnerable spaces with men.

Am I being thick here... if a trans person identified as a woman and looked like one, no one is going to challenge them on which genitals they have when they go to the toilet?

If a trans person identifies as a woman but doesn't appear to be one, and looks like a man, then they would surely be used to being viewed as a man in every place they go and therefore this would easily extend to a public bathroom?

So sorry to hear what your mum endured but single sex toilets would not and did not save her.

You’ve just read what that poor woman has been through, yet still place the feelings of male bodied people who identify as trans, above that woman’s right to feel safe in a single sex place? Why are you placing the feelings of male bodied people above the feelings of women? Why do you feel that a woman’s right to say NO! is less important than someone with a make body?

Er no I think it's your argument is ridiculous Hooves. Some girls bully therefore let the males in?

this is alex, alex identifies as a woman and a lesbian. it is transphobic not to let Alex into the women's toilets

@LimpLettice
That made me feel sick, taking used pads??? WTAF?

Its difficult to take a poster seriously when the state things like "woman with a penis".

There is no such thing.

I care.. about retaining single sex showers, changing rooms, toilets, dormitories, hospital wards, same sex intimate care, prisons and the rest.
That's not transphobia. It's caring for the rights to privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls. People who don't respect a woman or girl's right to have boundaries and say no are the people who worry me.

If there were male, female and unisex, then everyone who doesn't care could use the single sex or unisex. Those that do could use the single sex. That would be the best solution in my opinion.

I could deal with unisex toilets, if they were all self-contained cubicles with floor to ceiling walls and doors.

Male and unisex is not fair. Why do men get single sex facility, but we have to share? That's not on.

Absolutely correct RufustheLanglovingreindeer : I completely appreciate that other women care about toilet facilities. TRAs only ever mention toilet facilities because they are attempting to trivialise women's concerns over the issue of maintaining sex segregated spaces.

So it appears that (as usual) the people crying "transphobes" ask for proof; get given proof and then flounce saying how "hateful" everyone is

That makes me more relived I use reusables....

No one can steal my pads

Having seen plenty of accounts from AGP transwomen about their fetish for taking used tampons and pads, I’m not sure you can be so certain about that

Yeah I could have went the rest of my life happy not knowing that. People talking about finding juicy full pads and wearing them or sticking used Tampax up their backside. No amount of brain bleach man.

I care. I care a lot.

What right do you have to consent for anyone else?

I care. And frankly my rights are not yours to give away.

And if it’s just about peeing why can they not pee in the male toilets?

@kit19 that is clearly a male bodied person

You can’t open up women’s spaces to some men without opening them up to all men. The point of them is for women to be allowed to engage in public life, which they will not be able to do without the protections given under the Equality Act. YANBU to personally not care if women aren’t allowed any spaces to themselves but you are a colossal bellend if you are pretending that this means all women and girls should be happy to share all formally female spaces will any and all men. You can’t extrapolate anecdotes about lovely friends, neighbours and colleagues who wouldn’t hurt a fly to include all men. You can’t extrapolate the occasional adult woman in a safe environment such as a workplace having a wee in a cubicle to teen girls getting changed for swimming lessons in front of teen boys, traumatised victims of sexual violence trying to re enter public life, women whose religion forbids them to undress in front of men, women fleeing domestic violence, incarcerated women, just about every woman who wants to keep the safety, dignity and privacy granted under the law. Women’s rights are for all women, and not your personal property to give away because you are so tiresomely woke.

Er no I think it's your argument is ridiculous Hooves. Some girls bully therefore let the males in?

Er, no. That isn't what I said at all.

I think it's ridiculous to blame all bullying on boys and men and blame school boys for school girls avoiding using school toilets. Neither I nor my daughter were bullied by boys. Neither of us used school toilets though because we were bullied by girls.

Why is it ok to make such ridiculous points? Girls are bullying other girls - that's why lots of girls won't use school toilets.

I’m just waiting for the new posters (TRAs) to drop in the transphobic posts, quickly screen grab them, then post on Twitter, before said posts get deleted. Happens every single time a goady thread is started.

Although I can see why she would feel uneasy and possibly unsafe using male toilets

If a trans person identifies as a woman but doesn't appear to be one, and looks like a man, then they would surely be used to being viewed as a man in every place they go and therefore this would easily extend to a public bathroom?

And that's where the issue lies, especially with self ID.

A man , no matter what stage in the transition process he is, if at all, can simply says he identifies as woman/is a woman and any complaints,removal, fuss etc is transphobic and discriminatory.

The issue is not about "passing" and it shouldn't be, the issue is that a man can gain access to women spaces on his say so/feelings and that's that.

"women with a penis" jesus wept

indeed @rosecreakybex but that is what self ID brings. If transwomen are women because they say they are, then alex is a woman because they say they are - and they absolutely say they are

TRA insist Alex has the same rights to the same spaces as me and any other adult human female

I don't care either but many of the bathrooms at work were unisex so I am used to it. The cubicles are floor to ceiling, which I prefer anyway, each with their own sinks.

I think I probably have this view because I have friends who are trans and have seen what they go through. One of them did use the male toilets to make people more comfortable and ended up in hospital. I would also say that I have other trans friends that no one would even realise they were trans

You are completely missing the point Hooves.

@pollysproggle I kid you not. And when I say 'wear' them, I don't just mean stuffed inside pants. With the best will in the world, no matter how decent the majority of people with some sort of dysphoria are, plenty simply are not. That is the basic tenet of safeguarding and cannot be thrown away to the detriment of women and children for the sake of feelings. Please also remember that the Stonewall umbrella says dysphoria is not necessary and feeling like a 'girl' 2 days a week counts.

Literally every trans identifying male I've interacted with on twitter etc who really pushes the bathroom / changing spaces agenda are not doing it because they'll die in the men's (in South America maybe, not here) but because it's a kink. Anyone who truly identified with women would understand the fear and need for private spaces and so not insist.