To say I don't care what genitals the person in the next loo cubicle has...

[coronaandtired]

And that most people probably don't either?

I'm sick of the transphobia on Mumsnet, and fed up of how it seems to be fine on here to go after trans writers such as Juno Dawson, who is writing from their own experience and imagination, and absolutely allowed to publish whatever the fuck they want.

YANBU in my opinion

If all I'm doing is peeing, I don't care. But anyone who thinks that is the issue is wilfully missing the point.

In my late teens/ early 20's I would often get creepy older men latching onto me in pubs. When they wouldn't take the hint to leave me alone, the toilet was a life saver (I lacked the self confidence to tell them to F off). I'd either hide until they moved on, or wait for a group of women to come in, and ask if I could join there group for a bit (most had been there themselves at some point and were happy to help).

Ok not my finest moment, but I was young and naive, so got myself into tricky situations. The young naive woman of today deserve the same protection I had.

I'm with you OP, I really couldn't care less.

Raspberry the TRAs and MRAs dont want reasonable compromise, they want what they want and now!

The thing is though, threads like this only really serve to open peoples eyes up to the truth around gender politics. Any 'conversion' will only be to the GC side, so it's in womens interests to keep allowing the light to shine on the male oriented agenda piggy-backing on the 'suffering' of the gender dysphoria to slap women down.

I think transwomen are women, and so do transwomen and their friends and families

I’m going to ask again. This is a question to all those who believe the mantra TWAW. If a woman can’t be a trans woman, because she is a woman, what is a trans woman and what do they have in common with women. Again, please explain without talking a about ‘feelings’, because women are more than feelings. To describe women as no more than a feeling or desire is reductive and sexist.

So this is all moot really, I suppose. Anyway this post was at 160 replies last time I checked and I've decided to donate 10p for every post to Mermaids.

And I'll do likewise for nia

You can take Mermaids and shove 'em right up your goady arse!

@LemonPudding Not sure whether your comment 'I wonder why' was sarcastic. If not, I'm assuming the OP is here to stir things up with the intention of using the thread as evidence for so-called Mumsnet transphobia.

It's a shame for the OP that Mumnetter's posts are pretty tame, especially when compared to the plethora of Twitter posts from Trans Rights Activists threatening women who disagree with them, with rape murder and torture.

Let me put it this way, if somebody with a dick, or somebody who once had a dick, but identifies as female wants to pee in a cubicle next to me I could not care less. And never will.

Good for you. However, the rights of women are not yours to give away.

If people think toilets should be mixed sex, then that's fine, that's the conversation we should be having.
People may identify with their internal idea of being a man or a woman, that's their choice, we can recognise and respect that.
But humans can't change sex, people don't have to have a gender identity, sex-based rights are vital for vulnerable women and girls.
Being male or female isn't a 'feeling', it's a reality.

I'm donating to the LGB Alliance

I care!

OP you don't seem informed enough about the subject to be able to distinguish transphobia from concerns about self ID and you don't seem remotely concerned about organisations like Stonewall campaigning to have sex removed as a protected characteristic from the Equality Act.

I think you may need to get a more rounded perspective of the issues. If the voices of women don't matter to you then perhaps you might pay attention to some transwomen. I'd suggest Rose of Dawn, Debbie Hayton or Kristina Harrison; none of them support self ID. If you want an example of the problems self ID causes then look to Canada and Google Jessica Yaniv.

I lived with a TW for years but am opposed to self ID so please take your accusations of transphobia and do one!

I care and don't want to share public toilets with men, I would find it uncomfortable and scary. Men sexually harass me on a regular basis in public and I imagine it would feel far worse in such a small space like that. Also what about teenage girls being bullied by boys when they hear the crinkle of their pad and tampon packets or the sounds of them using the toilet? It leads to girls avoiding using toilets (in schools). What about women with trauma from rape, abuse etc?

@bluebeck - screenshots pls?

I care. I don’t want a man in a safe space for women.

I’ll probably get jumped on for this but actual transsexual women who have spent their lives living as a woman had the surgery etc then yes of course they should be using female facilities, but men who just self ID as trans female but still act, dress, appear male and have not committed to transitioning should definitely not.

In an ideal world i wouldn't care. But in this world, there are rapists and all sorts of violent perverts out there and almost all of them are men. Therefore i don't want men i don't know in the next cubicle when i am partially undressed, on my own and vulnerable.

MN is so transphobic it's bizarre.

Can you please point out the transphobia? Why is wanting a female only space transphobic? Why is it not phobic for people who identify as trans to have spaces, such as support groups or get together, free from people who are not trans? If trans people are the gender or sex they declare to be, what makes them trans? Why can’t I, as a female, be trans?

Also many times me and my friends have gone to public toilets to escape when a man is following us or harassing us. It's been a known tactic among girls and women in my area (inner city) for as long as I can remember and I'm sure this method is used elsewhere. Mixed sex toilets would completely erase female toilets as a safe space or a space away from men. Why shouldn't women be allowed somewhere safe to piss in and change their tampons ffs? Why is it so important that men are able to be around that? A real woman wouldn't want to scare other women, that's a man thing.

OP doing what all misogynists do - demanding 'respect' for males and their feelings, while denying the exact same rights to females.

I agree with you and hate mumsnet "feminism", particularly as trans people are some of the most vulnerable people in society and need protection.

Any comments on the vulnerability of the 4 billion women and girls in the world?

Not sure I'm keen on my 13 year old being in a cubicle next to a person with male genitalia. Not sure why this is transphobia. It's safeguarding.

I care. Men have penises and can rape. If they don't have penises then I'm happy for them to share women's space.

Women and girls are far more vulnerable than trans women. How dare you... We are being raped, beaten, trafficked, abused and exploited and murdered at alarming rates. MALE violence against women is a huge issue, and many trans women are simply violent males although their crime statistics are now often being recorded as women unfortunately.

I've been here forever and am just tired of the transphobia.

And I'm tired of people bleating on like they're some kind of activist for trans rights because women would often like single sex spaces. It's depressing and tiresome.

I don’t have a problem with trans people. I who are genuinely living their lives as the opposite sex.

I want a female only space, and that would include the above.

I have a problem with self identification. That a biologically and mentally male can decide one day he is female, identify as that and have access to the space, then turn back the next day.