Pulling kid out of private to go to (poor performing) state secondary

[Caplin]

Ok, I know it has been done many times.

We live in a relatively new build in an ‘up and coming’ area in Edinburgh. Our primary catchment school was of the worst in the city, so we decided to put the kids into private primary, but it is killing us.

We had already decided to pull them out for high school as the school was doing ok, but in the latest tables our catchment high school is in the bottom five performing in the city. Now I am panicking as eldest goes next year. Only 26% of kids got 5 highers.

Even before corona virus we knew we couldn’t afford private for high school. So do we risk it, or do we try and move? Looking around that means doubling our mortgage for a smaller house that needs fully refurbed. With corona virus, we might be even more screwed trying to sell our house 🥺

To be clear, I have no issue sending them to a state school, in fact it would probably be better for my eldest as she doesn’t do well with academic pressure, but I do have an issue sending them to a school that is crap. I can easily live with middle of the table, but this is just so poor performing.

Move - I was a gentle kid and I was bullied even at my naice grammar - neither of mine have coped even in nice secondary.

It’s not the academic stuff it’s the peer effect that is a deal breaker for me.

Can you move out somewhere in Dunbar or north Berwick catchment?

And don’t discount your religious school option - have you checked that?

Another Edinburgh based person wondering which school! We recently moved our dd to private from state primary and obviously the timing sucks 🙄. Our catchment high school has been mentioned already!

There is a strong correlation between catchment and results in Edinburgh, but there was some interesting analysis done a few years ago which calculated expected results for each school taking in to account things like free school meal percentage, then compared this with actual results which was quite interesting. Catchment school still came out as underperforming...

For the person saying the only difference is the tuition parents can afford I don't think that's true. I was pulled from a high performing (top 10) state school, and moved to a mediocre (out of the top 100 but not in the lower 100) state school during secondary. The differences were stark.

School 1 was in an area where almost everyone had at least one working "professional" parent. Parents working was entirely normal, so leaving school to work or go to university was so normal I don't think an alternative (beyond a gap year) would have been on the radar for most people. There wasn't a big drink or drug problem (maybe a bit of weed smoking and alcohol at parties but nothing wild). It was really quite sheltered, but the school still gets excellent results.

School 2 was in a city. It was very normal to have no working parents, and grandparents who hadn't worked either. A lot of my friend's parents had had them when they were teenagers and I had friends who actively tried to get pregnant in fourth and fifth year to help get a council house and benefits. Had I not moved I wouldn't have known that was even something that happened! There was a huge drug problem, with drugs being sold within the school and people turning up to school drunk.

In terms of the schools themselves school 2 had a far better music programme, the building was much better, the teaching was probably as good generally although it's hard to compare across subjects. I wouldn't underestimate the power of peer group pressure.

Results don't tell the whole story but they are a good indicator for what to expect.

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but as an Edinburgh resident, it really seems like an obviously poor deliberate decision to put DCs in a private for primary then move to state for secondary. If your eldest goes to senior school this year i.e. August then I think it might be too late to change, but I'm sure others will know for sure.

There are a couple of state secondaries in Edinburgh where they'd probably fit in ok after private school and if it were me, I'd move to those catchment area if you have time. If not I guess you're going to have to go with the poorly performing state and see how it goes. FWIW I wouldn't be as worried about the results, more about how the DCs will integrate.

No that’s right you can tutor for academics worst case but turning around a discouraged child that doesn’t fit in is much harder.

Given the situation though, I might be inclined to try it and see - does dd have any friends going to the school? Moving after a year of it’s a disaster isn’t the end of the world for early secondary.

What is your catchment Catholic school like? I've friends with kids at St Thomas of Aquins who are atheist but very happy with the school.

I used to live in Edinburgh- my children went to an all girls private and I was really sad to be moving them so appreciate your concerns. I have been in several of the state schools with my job at the time and would not send a shy child to Leith Academy if I could avoid it. I would move house completely- Linlithgow Academy is good and you could still have a decent sized house.

I had a friend from work who went round all the primary schools in the area and really liked a partic primary school ... the children who attended did not do that well in their SATs and fed into a secondary that also did not do that well in GCSE results. This boy was bright as a button

The result for this lad was those unsupported children followed him up to secondary school and received less support from their families at secondary and the results at this school year on year are terrible. He normed to the expectations of families, children and I guess the school dealing with all its multiple issues and achieved a lot less than other children (of seemingly similar intelligence) going to different primaries and secondaries who had a majority of parents who really encouraged/expected homework and the importance for future career and life. I feel some parents just dont know how hard you have to work to achieve, as maybe they didnt, or they have so much going on in their lives in terms of poverty, mental health, family disasters and so on.

How many children do you have? If you have more than 2, prob going to need to pull out. So, I would say, avoid that school unless your child can withstand being ribbed for working or is particularly bright and can float thru without working. Are there other state schools that might have a spare place due to in school movements? Or could your independent assist with a bursary or maybe you spreading the cost over more years? (If you do pull out and have to go to this awful school, may need to think about Tutoring to make up for all the time lost in lessons dealing with behaviour and other issues)

Having had no choice but to send DS to a school which had 26% A-C GCSE pass rate, so probably similar, then having to pull him out due to bullying and it being an all round terrible school, I’d recommend you move areas tbh. It’s miserable for them go go to a crap school, and if they get bullied it’s even worse than that.

Can you rent out your current house and use the income from that to live elsewhere?

God, I think I would rather home school than send to a failing school after private! I would keep at home and pay for tutors in key subjects combined with self study or pay for them to attend Interhigh until you can move to a better catchment. No way I would send a child from private to a failing school. Not a chance!

Another Edinburgh person here, so another trying to figure it out lol.
JG & BM arent all people think they are, bullying has always been bad at JG, yet they are both quite high up in the best schools to go to.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the league tables- the results in Edinburgh depend on the affluence of parents rather than how good or bad the School is. My School had good results but then when there was a crap teacher often parents just paid a private tutor.

Can you try speaking to parents with children at the School about their experience? What matters is how the School will support your children and I don't think the league table is a good way to tell.

I know someone who teaches in one of the 'better' schools in Edinburgh but used to teach in one that ranks much worse and he says the support for pupils in the 'worse' school is a lot better for example.

Hi OP I would move - we are going to be in a v similar position. DS1 currently in private education but we can’t do it for DS2 (not yet school age) for the rest of their academic lives so we will have to move. Houses in good catchments are ridiculously pricey but just think of the savings on school fees.

Interhigh as a 73% pass rate and it costs about 3k a year. Worth it as a stop gap, I think!

It would be helpful if you could name the schools concerned.

@Gigglebert did you work at Leith Academy? Do you think I should be concerned about my son going there at S5, after his whole live in private? He is academically focused but I suppose has only ever had positive social experiences at school, so not sure how he'd respond to anything negative. Is he likely to experience anything negative? So hard to predict!
@nonevernotever when you say the pastoral care at Leith Academy is great, does that mean any negative behaviour is managed well? Any info you can share would be appreciated!
@zhivagodr you say your friend's kid did well at Leith Academy - they enjoyed it? Did well academically? Do you have any further insights you can share with me.

The school inspection report - which is a few years old - says that progress is the main issue. I believe my son will drive his own learning but I suppose if he is under any emotional stress, that would no doubt impact on that, so that's my main concern. He's never had any social issues at his current school but the kids around him are basically all good kids.

Op I'm in Edinburgh and my two older kids go to what the newspaper classed as one of the worst schools in Scotland as they're 358 I think but to me the school is doing so well as my son has additional needs struggles but this school has brought him on so well so don't always take in what papers or that say

How old are the kids OP? I’d move, it’s worth a bigger mortgage (considering youl be saving in school fees) and smaller house if there’s still enough room for all of you. But if you can’t move then atleast go and visit this school and see what it’s actually like rather than relying on stats tables as they really don’t give the full picture.

Op I would sit still, uncertain times are not the time to be doubling your mortgage regardless of how secure you think your income is.

Plug any gaps with tutors if you need too. School ratings just aren't the best guide of anything.

I can't talk for Edinburgh but I know the schools in Glasgow with the highest attainments also have the highest number of kids who don't make it into second year of Uni. The theory is those high attainment schools also have high levels of tutoring.

The higher pass rate on its own isn't a good enough indicator of whether or not a school is good/will work for your child. Not least because some schools are moving to apprenticeship models - including for some of their high achieving kids. We've always been clear our kids were going to the local high school so have never really looked up the stats, etc but there is lots of info available through the parent portal or something is there not?

Think I know which new (ish) builds you are, if the schools referenced are correct. I really feel for you OP, I have a friend going through exactly what you are- it’s the recently published table that’s making her stressed too. The suggestion from pp about renting your place out and renting in another area would seem to be a good one. Would you say there’s families in your current area at private school- if so and you’ve kept the new build in good order, they’re great for family rentals and you could rent it out for high enough to cover your rental elsewhere. The cost of selling, buying, moving into high-performing state could be akin to more than a few terms of school fees 🤷‍♀️

Hosnav- why are you moving your son to Leith Academy?? I was in speaking to a group of 5th years about option for after leaving school. It was wild. And I mean wild. Kids throwing stuff, totally disengaged, girls in the front row who you just know are going to go on to have a hard life. Admittedly they were probably non academic children, but we really are talking about two different worlds here. How do you think your son will integrate? I am genuinely stunned.