Pulling kid out of private to go to (poor performing) state secondary

[Caplin]

Ok, I know it has been done many times.

We live in a relatively new build in an ‘up and coming’ area in Edinburgh. Our primary catchment school was of the worst in the city, so we decided to put the kids into private primary, but it is killing us.

We had already decided to pull them out for high school as the school was doing ok, but in the latest tables our catchment high school is in the bottom five performing in the city. Now I am panicking as eldest goes next year. Only 26% of kids got 5 highers.

Even before corona virus we knew we couldn’t afford private for high school. So do we risk it, or do we try and move? Looking around that means doubling our mortgage for a smaller house that needs fully refurbed. With corona virus, we might be even more screwed trying to sell our house 🥺

To be clear, I have no issue sending them to a state school, in fact it would probably be better for my eldest as she doesn’t do well with academic pressure, but I do have an issue sending them to a school that is crap. I can easily live with middle of the table, but this is just so poor performing.

Broughton or Drummond I’m guessing? For me I would choose a life you can afford with tutoring if needed. Remember to look wider. What else do the schools offer?

Be very wary of ofsted - a lot of the labels are very outdated. My dd was in an ‘outstanding’ primary school (outstanding since last check 10 years ago) the school had been declining and by the time she was in year 1 only 50% of kids leaving were at the attainment level expected we moved her to a ‘good’ school (checked in last 2 years) % of kids at expected level when leaving is 94%.
Also when we viewed the new school we loved the smaller class sizes and community spirit of the school. Look at the statistics then go and look around the school. My dd is thriving at new school (even in lockdown the difference between the schools is huge). Also school finances if you can get that information old school wasn’t an academy and lots of the money from pta had to go on basic resources for the classrooms whereas this new school is an academy school and has much larger budget for resources therefore additional funds are for ‘nice extras’ sensory garden, funded trips etc.
Good luck op :)

In many ways your choices are limited

Can you afford to move to a better neighbourhood with a better school and do you have the job security to move ?
Then do so

Are the medium to high risks for your financial future ? If yes , you’d be mad to move . Stay , start the school and sit tight and both assess and make plans

I also would like to know the school. I know children at Broughton, Drummond and Leith who have all done really well. And children who went to Boroughmuir and James Gillespies who didn’t. Are your kids academic? If so they’re likely to do well no matter where they go.

I would move. I went to a secondary with low attainment, at that time about 25% got 5 A-C at GCSE. As a previous poster said, everything was poor. Behaviour, attitudes, pastoral care, consistency and quality of teaching because of high staff turnover. It was no way to receive an education and I also had gaps in my knowledge that stayed with me until university. My overarching memory (although I had a lot of fun with my friends) was feeling throw to the wolves every day. I learnt to become invisible. Even the high set classes were constantly disrupted as poor behaviour was the norm. If your kids are street smart they'll probably adapt and be fine. If they're more sensitive they'll be eaten alive.

I would move, definitely.

My kids, particularly the eldest, would just get mauled.

I was a kid who got mauled. Still affects me negatively today, over 30 years later. Send them to a decent school.

I would move. I moved when my dc were very small to get into local high performing schools, leaving a beautiful Victorian house for a 1950s semi. In my area there is one 6th form college for A levels, the two schools locally with poor gcse results send a tiny number each year and those that go seek to struggle with the different approach to learning and often leave.

I would try and move to where the schools are better if at all possible
Otherwise buy in what tutoring you can afford
Not easy for you

I would def move. Good luck op.

Poor performing schools are almost always because of the catchment area. It doesn't mean the school is crap. You say yourself you thought it was doing OK. Do you mean for your kids? Some people believe good kids will be fine anywhere. It could be harder for them to do well there but not impossible. If they are intelligent, they will be in the top sets so around others like them.

I know the Edinburgh schools well, between teaching placements and jobs I've taught in seven of them and know staff at them all. Results really aren't everything! Drummond had the best pastoral support team that I have ever worked with, it really was an incredible place to work and the pupils had excellent relationships with their teachers. If we were still. In Edinburgh I would have sent my children there with no hesitation. Equally, Leith Academy has an incredible arts programme, their drama/dance departments are amazing!

Move. Academically they will be fine, it may not damage their chances to go to a good university, but peer pressure might.

Also, what’s the point of excelling academically if you cannot achieve your potential because you are too damaged after a life time of bullying?

Agree, try to move. We lived in a flat many years ago, near Boroughmuir. It was a great place to live even though the outside space was limited. Good luck.

Move.

The expected post-CV market crash works in your favour, if you're moving to a more expensive house. (If you can afford to spend a bit more now that is). Crashes offer the perfect opportunity to move up, because, if eveything drops by the same %, the actual price gap between houses narrows. That relies upon the same % drop hitting different neighourhoods of course, which may not be true.

Do also visit the relevant schools and get a 'feel' for them, before you choose. Talk to parents if you can - try on here too. It would be gutting to move for a school that didn't suit your DCs. Also (I don't know how this works in your area) but be really careful about catchments and making sure you will get a place.

I live in edinburgh and I hate to say it but . you chose the big house over schooling. There are no ‘bad’ Schools but did you not research schools before buying?
If you are paying for two kids at heriots or esms you could double your mortgage And not even notice moving to state.

You said you planned to move them to state for secondary..
Even moving to a top performing secondary from private would be an adjustment.
A lot of parents move to flats to get into the JG/ BM stream but tbh..there are better schools in the city.

Don’t know which school you are referring to but doubling your mortgage for a smaller house that needs refurbished.... living in a flat...it’s what the rest of us are doing .. that’s edinburgh. You can not get the nice house and a nice area for under 600k. Not in my area anyway.. we opted for the smaller but lovely flat prob for the price of a new build in gilmerton but I’d def recommend a move to this area we love it.
Best thing you can do is visit the schools and speak to the staff. I can’t think of any areas that are up and coming with new build houses.... Not top of the league but my two are at Trinity and are very happy. A friend’s boy is at Leith and loves it. I know folk who bought in the new builds in liberton but they are going to Watson’s I think.
Remember friendships much more important in so many ways than league tables.

But if it’s an upcoming area then perhaps by the time they are at high school everyone else that’s moved in will also have kids going to high school and will bring the pass rates up over time and change the dynamic of the school. Depends if you want to see how things go otherwise I’d move.

I’d move if that was the only option. The private primary schooling is irrelevant, it’s not like going to a rougher school would have ‘toughened’ them up and who wants primary aged kids toughened anyway?
If the school is that poor it is going to be harder for your kids to learn even if they do ignore all the site actions around them.

The Higher pass rate is really not a good indicator of the value added by the school, and a low ranking doesn't mean that children can't thrive academically. Under normal circumstances I would go and visit the school on a regular school day to get a feel for the atmosphere and general behaviour of pupils. My children attended secondary schools at opposite ends of the ranking table. Both children did very well academically, but we found the lower ranked school to provide a much better environment and quality of teaching. The difference in attainment was solely due to the difference in the catchment areas and the amount of private tuition pupils at the higher ranked school accessed right from S1 onwards.

Caplin - have a look round the school, try to get in touch with people who actually have kids there and speak to them, and then decide. It seems bizarre to decide without having done that, first.

Or are you literally planning on moving now and not waiting for schools to reopen?

Move! I don't buy into the whole mantra that a capable child will do well anywhere. That's perhaps true for a very motivated, self-resilient child. But most will find it very difficult when they are surrounded by a peer group who isn't interested, staff who are too busy resolving discipline to actually teach and low aspirations.

I'm not sure about the situation of placing requests in Edinburgh at the moment but if you're happy with mid table you could look at somewhere like Craigmount or Currie, but there are transport implications and the fact your child will be well away from their friends. Tutoring is another option and might be financially better.

I'd move though - good schools in Scotland generally remain there or thereabouts. I went to secondary in Edinburgh in the 80s and the good schools then are the good schools now. If you do move, your house will retain its value. We moved into the area for an excellent school over a decade ago and the houses here are still worth more than the houses over the catchment line, especially now that placing requests aren't happening.

Oh and if you're planning on moving, get your skates on as you'll be applying for a place in January. It's not that far away.

Let your child start and see. There is no way to predict who will thrive where and a poor Ofsted isn’t necessarily a problem. Research the school, speak to staff and parents. You could move and have a bullied children who hates the new place — a nice house has value too

The points about value added are good. But the question is, how will OP's DC fit in? Will they gain from the school's focus, teaching and opportunities offered?

If OP's child is somewhere around averagely able and well behaved, where do they fit into a school that is excellent at supporting DCs with multiple problems and barriers to learning? That's not what OP's DC needs. If that's the school's focus, the quiet, well-behaved, reasonably able ones seem likely to be ignored and not stretched.