Pulling kid out of private to go to (poor performing) state secondary

[Caplin]

Ok, I know it has been done many times.

We live in a relatively new build in an ‘up and coming’ area in Edinburgh. Our primary catchment school was of the worst in the city, so we decided to put the kids into private primary, but it is killing us.

We had already decided to pull them out for high school as the school was doing ok, but in the latest tables our catchment high school is in the bottom five performing in the city. Now I am panicking as eldest goes next year. Only 26% of kids got 5 highers.

Even before corona virus we knew we couldn’t afford private for high school. So do we risk it, or do we try and move? Looking around that means doubling our mortgage for a smaller house that needs fully refurbed. With corona virus, we might be even more screwed trying to sell our house 🥺

To be clear, I have no issue sending them to a state school, in fact it would probably be better for my eldest as she doesn’t do well with academic pressure, but I do have an issue sending them to a school that is crap. I can easily live with middle of the table, but this is just so poor performing.

I did honestly think it was Craigroyston you were talking about!

Your child will be fine at Broughton. Prior to starting, you could have a talk about resilience, and how he/she might see behaviours that they haven't seen at ESMS. That's what I did when middle child started at a mixed secondary school, after a plummy Primary
I promise you though, that there is no need to worry, and hope this makes you feel better

Oh, and Tatler named Broughton one of the best state schools in the country!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/tatler-schools-guide-broughton-high-named-top-state-secondary-624177%3famp

Are your DDs into Brownies or Guides OP? I used to run a Brownie unit in Stockbridge and 75% of our girls were at state primaries. Our young leaders attended Broughton and the local Ranger unit and we’re really lovely young women. Might be worth considering when everything starts back if that would be of interest to your DDs.

Lots of snobbery on this thread!

@hosnav, have you considered Drummond for your child? It’s a much, much smaller school than Leith Academy so might be better if your child is shy/introverted or if you think they’d be overwhelmed with Leith. It’s a close knit school and quite an international outlook. If you’re in the catchment area for LA you’re not too far either but you’d have to apply for an out of catchment place.

@mintcassis eldest did brownies at wardie but stopped for guides as it clashed with her dancing. Youngest is at brownies in Trinity, so not many in Broughton catchment.

@zhivagodr no, he's not shy or introverted. He gets on well with everyone in his current school - has friendships across cliques as well as having a close circle of his own. He is also not influenced by his peers; he is very much his own person while still being in a the centre of a big group of friends - that's why I think he will be fine at Leith. Most of what I've read here has reassured me that it would suit him fine.

This might sound bizarre but I would be influenced by their personality.

If they are confident, outgoing, captain of the football team types, that will hold onto their own identities and be confident enough to socialise with kids from all backgrounds, and be teased to death, then I would be okay with the sink school.

If they are less resilient, and have a propensity to be bullied, I would think twice.

It's the British class system that would worry me. You see the class system works both ways. Kids from working and lower class backgrounds can be absolutely savage to kids they perceive as snobby or thinking that they are better than everyone else. Kids will always quickly pick up social differences and exploit them to comic effect. Resilient kids can probably handle this, but more sensitive ones may not.

I'm so surprised you said it was Broughton. Broughton has a great ethos, although very mixed catchment which probably explains the results. I would have no hesitation sending my DC there if we lived in that part of Edinburgh.

Speaking from experience, even moving from private to reasonably good state secondary was a shock and I regret it years later and feel guilty. Would do it differently if I could go back.

If there’s only one house available, perhaps you could cast your net a bit wider. When I was little, my parents moved us from their lifelong city to a small village to provide us with the best environment and education. They felt the city had deteriorated in both educational qualities and too many people - too much crowding.
Later on, my mum confessed that they hated it, but we children loved growing up there and still have many ties there.
Just a thought, @Caplin. Good luck finding just the right home to go with just the right school.

I took my kid out of private school, aged 13.

His dad used the fees as a weapon and actually, that money thing was his world, not mine so sent him to the well below par local comp knowing he would be ok regardless. Saturday school and school on bank holidays never made him happy!

My Son loves his local state secondary. Still achieves academically, as do his friends, teachers are more motivated as they want the school to improve. It’s his favourite school, it’s free, his friends are lovely, he’s happy, I’m happy!

Private schools will seduce you with this myth that they’re everything and good admin. In my experience they won’t necessarily get a worse education - just worse facilities and the admin isn’t as good. The important bit, the exams and the teaching is just as effective from what I can see.

Don’t worry. Private primary sets good learning patterns and learning attitudes (with tons of homework/clubs/little time outside school community) so you’ve probably done it the right way round and it won’t be wasted.

You may be pleasantly surprised. I was. It felt huge at the time. It turned out to be a really great move for us.

In my experience just because a school performs badly in league tables does not mean the teaching and learning is poor- quite the opposite. Teachers are not coasting they work far harder For their students especially the ones that show a bit of motivation. If the area you are living in is up and coming I’d personally send to state school rather then downsize... teenagers need space. If things aren’t going well be year 9 move them to another school then... you’ll have time to save if that private. Schools change and you can supplement learning with tutoring

I have experience of sending my children to private prep. then state secondary in Scotland and I must say there are loads of things to to into account that I hadn't thought of when we were moving ours. We went for the best Secondary in the area. It was the worst thing we could have done. The stuck up click in the girls were appalling to my Autistic DD, I really wish we had never sent her there. Our son insisted on moving to the local low performing school after two years and thrived. Please don't presume that the exam results in 'top performing ' schools are all that. Not only don't many of them have a good ethos to pastoral care but they also get their great results simply by excluding other children from taking the exams at all. I now know many families who's children have left with little or no qualifications because the school simply wouldn't enter them in the exams so they never got a chance. That may well be fine if your child is going to be in the top 25% or so but definitely worrying if they are not.

Two DC at Broughton. It’s a good school, I feel they are safe and supported there. There is actually quite a bit of social mixing, which I feel has done them both good.
There is both Brownies and Guides at St Stephen’s Church, virtually opposite Broughton, which may have spaces after lockdown over.

My daughter was at a private senior school . She made a lot of good friends, but struggled with the academic side and the rules. She insisted on moving to a state sixth form. We knew the school and thought it would be fine, but it was her choice. She hated it. For the first time in her entire life she was bullied . She got disastrous results because the teachers weren’t putting in the time and effort to supporting her learning
That she had bee used to. It was a big mistake.

I'd move. We did for similar reason. No regrets.

Tutor tutor tutor and go for a bursary?

As a state school teacher of over twenty years who has taught in a variety of schools in England, I am appalled by the almost unchallenged elitism and short sightedness on this thread. I would rather my children grew up to see that other children who perhaps come from backgrounds more challenging than their own are not animals who
‘maul’ one another and that they might learn much more about the many injustices in the world (currently being exposed more than ever in current pandemic) by exposing them to real life rather than cosying them in ivory towers which will
continue to perpetuate and entrench current divisions. Your post saddens me and we clearly lead very different lives. I feel very low after reading all that.

Another Edinburgh person here.

I think you are panicking somewhat unduly about Broughton. Have you actually been to look round? Spoken to someone like you that uses the school?

What I’m going to say next is not really for your benefit but for that of any one else who lives in the city - state primary to private secondary is the normal transition. Going the other way will be hard and I’d try really, really hard not to put your child in that position.

The kids at private school pick up some really nasty opinions about kids at state school - I think they must hear their parents talking and infer. It’s not things that have been said directly to them. So the thought of suddenly moving into one of those schools is hard.

On the other side the state school kids are a bit jealous / resentful of the private school kids and aren’t that open/welcoming especially if the child talks a lot about “my last school”.

I’ve eavesdropped on conversations between lots of different children btw. And love shocking the kids about my state school past (because sadly some this is a shock).

Broughton is the secondary for Stockbridge/bottom of New Town. Not all naice middle class families send their children privately I think it might not be as bad as you think. But your children will be more exposed to life than in the coddled world of ESMS. Personally I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing. I also have friends whose children have additional needs who have really struggled in the private sector to get the help needed.

I went to an Edinburgh state school (one listed on here as desirable) after living in one of the dormitory towns. It was eye opening to thirteen year old me - wilder fashion /language etc. In retrospect it was just the wider social mix. My friends when I eventually made them on the whole came from households like mine - and I’m still in touch with many of them. And we haven’t done too badly (doctors/teachers/architects/engineers). Several still live in the area and are prepping to send their kids soon. Some of the teachers are the same which is causing us much amusement.

@Pernie

We weren't all slagging off state schools! Far from it, in fact.

I would rather my children grew up to see that other children who perhaps come from backgrounds more challenging than their own are not animals who 'maul’ one another

Some of them are though. You'd think very differently if your kid had been mauled and you saw the devastating effects of that every single day.

Some of them are though. You'd think very differently if your kid had been mauled and you saw the devastating effects of that every single day.

On the other hand, my DS was bullied relentlessly, not initially by the DC from the poor side of the school, some of whom had unstable and chaotic lives including murdered parents etc but by the "lovely" MC children. One of whom has regularly represented the country in sport, bullying shite that I would still gladly run over if he happened to be crossing the road as I was driving past...

Sorry to hear that your DC is still suffering @Ineedaduvetday. Mine is nearly 20 and still has issues with anxiety, confidence, self esteem etc. He barely speaks to anyone and this all occurred in primary school. We had to move him out of catchment for high school and he ended up at a top state school and has done really well and made some good friends, but he is now struggling to stay in touch with them or make new friends now he is in Uni.

Edinburgh really has to be considered as a bit of an anomaly though. Around a quarter of DC go to private school lifting a massive amount of children that you would expect to have parental support and more stable lives, out of the state sector. Combine that with some of the wealthiest areas being right next to areas with a lot of deprivation then you end up with few completely comprehensive schools in terms of pupil mix. You have a few that have only deprived pupils, a few that have only wealthy pupils, a few that are really mixed and a lot that have DC from polar opposite backgrounds.

It doesn't really work for mixing as there is too big a gap for DC to feel comfortable crossing so the groups tend to stay apart.

Doubletrouble99
That is simply untrue. Exam passes in State schools at the end of S4, 5 and 6 are calculated as a percentage of the school roll at the start of S4. Therefore it's in a school's interest to allow all children to sit exams and not to exclude. In the private sector however, results are based as a percentage of those who sit them.
The league tables are made up by the press from the raw data on exam results pruduced by the SQA.

We are in the same boat. We love the area, of Edinburgh we're in, however the schools are not the best. We are moving house to a better catchment, or we will when the market is back up and running again. However I will say this, I do not think all private schools are value for money. My sibbling and I were both privately educated. I was bullied by the girls at mine and don't think I got the same education as my sibbling. The fees kept on going up each term regardless. I would send my child to a good state school, because of that.

My eldest was so badly bullied in her private school that I pulled her out and sent her to a local comprehensive, where she flourished. It's wrong to assume the pupils don't experience academic pressure in non private schools. My children all experienced pressure in comprehensive education to do well and not damage the school's reputation.