AIBU to be frustrated at flexibility being given to parents but denied to others?

[BojoKilledMyMojo]

I've been generally musing after conversations with a few friends over the past week on working arrangements.

It seems to be very common for parents to be given as much flexibility as they need to accommodate kids being home or to allow for drop offs / pick ups / appointments / sickness etc during non covid times.

All that is terrific, but why is the same flexibility not routinely granted to others? And why are non parents expected to pick up the shitty end of the stick all the time by being in early, staying late, working Xmas, getting last dibs on holidays etc?

Are you planning a family ever?

In my workplace (nhs non clinical) the whole team is treated the same regardless of whether you have children or not. Could just be your workplace? What do you do?

Flexibility is one thing, however your right everyone needs to do their fair share, one way or another.

Before I had kids I was happy to work late, long hours if needed, because I could. I preferred holiday outside of school holiday times so parents taking those weeks didn't bother me. Now I'm a parent and I need the flexibility more and I use it.

I do think employers should be more flexible in general for all employees when they need it, though.

Flexible working is a request anyone can make to their employer. It’s up to individuals to request it if they need it.

Flexibility varies greatly by employer and industry but parents and carers don't just get given flexible working, they have to ask for it and the employer can refuse if they can't accommodate it. Given that parents and carers are more likely to ask for flexible working it stand to reason they're more likely to have it than people who don't have caring responsibilities or who have not asked for it.

You have a right to request it too OP as any employee can request it so long as they meet the eligibility criteria, details are here:

www.gov.uk/flexible-working

If you think your employer is applying flexibility unfairly then that's the fault if management, not the individual parents and carers and should be taken up with HR.

Have you ever made a formal flexible working request?

That’s not my experience at all, both in Covid and non-Covid times.

It seems to be very common for parents to be given as much flexibility as they need to accommodate kids being home or to allow for drop offs / pick ups / appointments / sickness etc during non covid times.

if you don't have kids, you would not need to go with them to hospital appointments. What is your point?
Also, if you are available for school runs and pick ups, this usually means a part time job with a reduced pay cheque. Maybe I (as a part timer for that reason should complain that my childless colleagues are able to earn more as they don't have to do school runs?).
Also, time off to look after a dependent in an emergency is a statutory right.

I have frankly no idea what the point of your post is. Are you saying that parents should not be able to look after sick children and should send their DC to e.g. hospital appointments on their own or not get medical treatment?

I hasten to add that it isn't my workplace, and I'm not going to be having children.

What's your solution? Only women without children can work full-time so as to make it 'fair'? That's socially backwards. It's up to industry to move into the 21st century so that everyone is a valuable and valued employee. If you're disgruntled that you're having to pick up the 'shit', complain to your employer.

It seems to be very common for parents to be given as much flexibility as they need to accommodate kids being home or to allow for drop offs / pick ups / appointments / sickness etc during non covid times.

Not as common or as easily granted as you think. Further, it usually comes with penalties in career terms for women (less so for men).

Finally, if you want flexible working, everyone has the right to ask for it after 6 (I think) months' working. The request is predicated on your workplace and role, not on what you intend to do with the time.

HTH

I hasten to add that it isn't my workplace

So this is what? Hearsay? Your mates moaning? You've started a thread having a pop at working parents because your mates have had a whinge? Tell them to sort their shit out instead of coming on social media to attack women.

It's meh. I worked for a long time in a place with about 60 people and about 25 other, younger than me, women. I had a really hard time fitting in my work around my DCs and absolutely no flexibility given. Childcare costs enormous etc etc. Was often disadvantaged by not being able to take part in "non-work but expected to attend" evening events, and moaned at for having to bring the DCs to the office sometimes when we had to work at a weekend (normal 8-6 office job).

Time went on. Many of the younger ones went on to have their own children. Requsted part time and/or flexible working. Which, partly due to my pressure on management, was granted. And then had the next 10 years having to hear about how i had it easy and didn't have to rush home for DCs and could go out in the evening etc etc. So basically i say: either everyone gets a good crack at the whip for flexible working and holidays when they want/need them or nobody does and just sucks it up. Having children doesn't make you more special or valuable than anyone else. But it's funny how people don't care about flexible working until they need it.

I have a colleague with an elderly mother, I allow her to work flexibly when needs be to allow her to help care for and take her mother to appointments. I have another colleague with a long term health condition that requires many appointments and for her to work at home at various times due to her compromised immune system. I myself have two small children. We allow tolerance and appreciation for each other and we all do our required work and more in good willing spirits because of this. At the moment flexibility HAS to be given to those with children because there is NO childcare. I also think appreaction and tolerance should be shown to everyone, this is not normal working times, our very fabric of society has been ripped apart and everyone is struggling to adapt to this. Attitudes like yours are small minded and do not look at the bigger picture and it has been proven that flexible working actually gives greater productivity.

I don't know whether that's true everywhere. In my workplace parents have flexibility yes but it's not a free for all. They use their annual leave, unpaid parental leave, flexible working arrangements where they have to make up the hours later etc. You wouldn't necessarily see that, you'd just see that they're not in during core times etc. You're not being disadvantaged. If you're being left to pick up the rest of their work then that's your manager's fault, not the parent.

The flexibility comes at a price too. Typically a reduced salary and reduced job prospects and career progression - women in particular are far less likely to be promoted after having children. Then there is the endemic attitude of part time/flexible workers not being fully dedicated employees, only doing half the work, taking the piss while still expecting to have rights, etc.

You can apply to work flexibly also.

But, you do realise that have to care for children we have, it really is that simple. Are we are legally obliged to do so. During this time is is utterly painful to WFH whilst young children are at home, and there would be a crisis of neglact of children and MH illness of there was no flexibility (as those who work in an org whereby they have been offered none will attest).

OK so of the examples discussed, one friend has a wife with severe MS and he's been told he had to make up time taken to take her to medical appointments, but the man who works in his department in a similar role has not been told he had to make up time for leaving work to collect a sick child from school.

Another friend was told that she cannot take holidays in school holidays because she doesn't have children. Her husband is a teacher.

And another friend who is a parent, but her children are very much grown up has been told on numerous occasions that she has to stay late to get team tasks completed, having watched the parents leave on the dot of finishing time. She cares for her father who has dementia.

My husband's friend works for a company who offer flexitime to all parents, but not to anybody else and the few requests made have been declined because they need to ensure business continuity or some other such nonsense.

Depends on the job surely
No chance of flexible working at my place - very strict appointment system with people booking 3/4/6 months ahead
Even having a day off for illness is massively frowned on

And why are non parents expected to pick up the shitty end of the stick all the time by being in early, staying late, working Xmas, getting last dibs on holidays etc?

I can assure you this is not the case in my workplace. Maybe you need to raise your concerns with your employer. Your anger at seems misdirected.

None of the examples you've provided are the fault of the person who has flexible working, they are all management issues.

I do agree with you OP, although you'll probably get flamed on here.

Of course, there are plenty of people in the workplace who have children and don't take the piss and do their fair share but there are also people who think it is their god given right to have flexibility and dump all their shit onto their colleagues. It's not fair.

I remember, years ago I had started a new job and had been working for the company for around 5 months. During the Christmas period we were all told that the policy was that everyone had to work 1 day over Christmas, either Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve (we were shut on Christmas Day and news years day). A lady who had worked for the company for a couple of years kicked up a huge fuss and said that the new staff member (me ) should do both because she has children and should be home with them during the Christmas period, and why would I need to be at home because I don't have kids it wasn't good enough that she already had Christmas Day and New Year's Day off (which is a lot more than some people get).

A lot of people have this attitude of "well if you don't have kids you don't need Christmas off". We all should be able to enjoy a bit of time with our families at Christmas, kids or not.

@opticaldelusion if you took the time to actually read what I wrote, it is very clear that my post is based on my friends circumstances, hence me saying it was a general musing after conversations with friends.

I also am not against flexibility at all. I merely think it should be given to everybody.