AIBU to be frustrated at flexibility being given to parents but denied to others?

[BojoKilledMyMojo]

I've been generally musing after conversations with a few friends over the past week on working arrangements.

It seems to be very common for parents to be given as much flexibility as they need to accommodate kids being home or to allow for drop offs / pick ups / appointments / sickness etc during non covid times.

All that is terrific, but why is the same flexibility not routinely granted to others? And why are non parents expected to pick up the shitty end of the stick all the time by being in early, staying late, working Xmas, getting last dibs on holidays etc?

sorry, xpost, @SerenDippitty.

Before I had my dd, I had cancer and my colleagues helped me out. It isn’t just about flexibility for parents. If you haven’t been on the receiving end of that consideration yet, you should consider yourself lucky, not treated unjustly. Now that my dd is older and a bit more sufficient, I am happy to help colleagues in the more difficult phases of life.

I don't think Parents get the monopoly around holidays and xmas at all, I think this is your company that's allowing that, Ive always worked in places where its whoever booked it off, parents or non parents.

Parents need flex around school pickups or would you prefer them to fend for themselves come hometime and try and get themselves home and look after themselves till its 5.30 and the parent finishes at the same time as yourself so your not upset..

As a parent myself that DOES have a good amount of flex with work, I rarely take lunch breaks or if I do, its literally just to eat, I start before my peers and after school pickups im usually logged on a bit later to show my appreciation.

If you ever become a parent youll understand the need for a bit more flexability that a non parent..

Why are you on MN if you don't/aren't going to be having children?

Your friends sound a pretty dull bunch, tbf.

Did you start this thread deliberately?

People. Don’t bite.

Well she didn't start it accidentally.

I think it definitely depends on the job if the role is office based and does not involve face to face client meetings then surely flexibility is at the employer's discretion. I work in an area which has no flexibility traditionally you work set hours because that is when they are open and cannot leave early or come in late. I do have part time hours which for my industry is rare but as a large percentage of the workforce is female they are coming around to the option of job share. Before children I would not be granted any holidays during school holidays. I now have kids and will manage to get holidays in the summer holidays but not at Christmas or Easter as these are traditionally busy times for us. I can take hospital appointments during work hours but all other appointments would be expected to be taken outside of that. I can take unpaid parental leave if kids are unwell. I would not be paid if I had to take time off to take a kid to an appointment and would either be expected to take the day off or unpaid leave.

I think problems arise when it is left up to a manager's discretion as many managers will vary hugely in their approach.

I agree with you OP. I'm childfree and often have to pick up other work within the team as colleagues have had to pick up a sick child from school/nursery or stay at home due to lack of childcare. There's a general feeling that childfree people won't mind this as they've nothing to rush home for! Needing to get home to let the dog out and feed him or having a commitment in the evening so needing to leave on time seems to raise eyebrows.

Given we're all now working at home (office-based roles), a lot of staff are currently working a fraction of their hours due to having children at home but are quite happily still taking their full salary rather than requesting flexible working to reflect the hours they can actually work in the current circumstances. We're being asked to take voluntary pay cuts to help the financial situation (university so a significant proportion of our income is from student fees and there is concern over a reduction in student numbers of up to 50% next year), and I can't help thinking that if people are only working 1 day per week, they shouldn't merrily continue to take a full-time salary given we could be facing redundancies if our financial forecasts are correct.

As for posters asking why the childfree are on here, I'm generally found on the telly addicts, style and beauty and gardening boards. None of which require you to have children to enjoy reading the threads, gaining useful information and occasionally contributing to the discussion.

I don't understand why are some people here getting their nickers in twist unless you recognised yourselves...

Op isn't saying "Take flexi away from parents because it often leads to unfair treatment" OP is saying "everyone should be afforded flexi when they need or want it so it wouldn't lead to unfair treatment". I don't understand what the problem is with it.

My dh has flexible working and works from home two days a week allowing him to drop the kids off to nursery and preschool and then pick them up in the afternoon. He does longer days for the rest of the week to make up for any time lost. He is the only one in his team with young children. If he was not granted flexible working I would have to look for weekend hours only. Flexible working allows us both to be working parents.

And omg can the "why are you on MN if you don't have children" thickoes just go away? Bloody hell

""If you ever become a parent you'll understand the need for a bit more flexability that a non parent..""

Get down of your high horse now !!! This attitude is shocking. no one know what goes on in people's lives, as to why they need flexibility. God has decided that my body cant produce children, so I will never become a parent.

If there is an option for flexibility in the workplace - it should be open to all. It is in my place, there is a written HR producer listing out the rules etc, it applies to all staff regardless of what level you are, male or female, children or no children. You sign it when you start your job. It is one f the main reasons I took my current job. I may not have children, but I have a partner with a business which I help run, a mother in law lives next door which we mind(because as we have no children, my partners siblings leave it to us)a dog plus horses to look after . I also help out with nieces and nephews on both sides. I have an illness that requires me to see a specialist every three months aswell as surgery every two to three years My life (up to lockdown ) was very busy and I loved the fact that my work allowed the flexibility to do my work around my life, I always make sure it gets done. Yes I have been in cases where my holidays have been withdrawn etc to allow people with children have them instead, instead of saying anything I look for a new job after. That way of working is not acceptable at all to me, People can have children that is their right, they can not judge someone though because they don't have children nor make special demands because of them If work allows flexibility it should be allowed to all regardless

There'll be loads of these threads in the lead-up to September. The 'Why' is, they have children.
So if schools and childminders aren't open then what do you suggest - that they bring their children in to work? Most employers rightly wouldn't allow that and you'd complain about that too, if they did. On the other hand I'm bemused by parents who think they're calling all the shots here. I think they'll be 1st in one for losing their jobs especially if it's blatantly clear they can be done without. Not all are going to be allowed to continue working from home. Then in the office you'll 100% have someone or other moaning about parents being given perks such as home-working. It will cause division.

In these unprecedented times and impending economic crisis I wouldn't be heavily reliant upon employers goodwill. Business is business. So parents, mostly women, will be fucked over yet again in all this. As per usual. As for non-Covid times well then, it seems some either don't think parents should be working or think them having children shouldn't be taken into account at all. I don't think employers would get away with that. Or is the idea that having a child should dis-bar you from working?

I have a child under 1 and have been given no special treatment. I’m one of the first to start and last to finish. YABU for your generalisation.

I have absolutely no idea why the OP is getting a hard time here... or why there are so many sanctimonious posts from parents being utterly rude towards the child free.

The OP has said NOTHING about parents themselves. Or this being the fault of parents.

It’s a sometimes general attitude from some employers ( and I suppose some colleagues ) who think that the child free shouldn’t be allowed the same privileges as those with children. Working Christmas, time off, flexibility, etc.

And this -

You clearly don't have kids OP. I'm sorry your employer won't allow you more flexibility to drip your cat off at the school gates

Was an absolutely disgusting thing to say to any person. How utterly rude and sanctimonious.

This might put your mind at rest but many employers pay lip service to flexible working; some, like the US Corp that I used to work for made no effort to hide their hatred of anyone who put family ahead of work. Who will be the first forced back into the home without flexible working do you think. Men or women?

It may seem like as a parent you get to take loads of time off - sick children, dentist appts, childcare arrangements etc BUT employers are under no obligation to pay those parents for taking the time off (one day for emergency childcare maybe but the rest of the week...) Many epoyers don't so it effects their paypacket far more than it does yours if they are not able to make back the time they owe. Also, employers can only accomodate so much, continually having to take time off for children becomes a HR issue if it ends up adversely effecting your performance at work in which case you can and will be dismissed.

Another one here who agrees employers should use flexibility where possible but use it for everyone
Unfortunately we've all seen folk who feel they're a special case just by virtue of being parents, and that childcare issues are a matter for employers to solve - usually accompanied by some flannel about them "getting so much more goodwill if they do x, y or z", when that goodwill is all too often forgotten the instant something doesn't go the parent's way

Nobody denies it can be tough being a working patent, but some really don't help themselves - like the current petition-signers who expect "at least 3 months extra paid leave" because they've missed out on a few baby groups

If you are a carer for anyone of course you should be offered flexibility first. What kind of society would we become if children, the sick and elderly were left to fend for themselves? With COVID, flexibility for everyone is going to become the norm anyway

Many epoyers don't so it effects their paypacket far more than it does yours if they are not able to make back the time they owe.

Do the employers who deduct wages for this time off use those deductions to pay overtime to other staff who have to pick up the slack?

I bet they don't.

For those who are child free: I bet you would rush out of work if your partner/ parent/ close friend is ringing you because they had an accident or other emergency. And I bet your employer will let you go, no questions asked. It's similar for parents, school/ childcare rings up, parents have to respond.

I don’t have children and it really depends on your workplace and manger. When I first started working twenty years ago, my first few work places had the parents first culture, as a result the employees were not flexible at all-as it did not go both ways. My last workplace had great managers that understood that everyone needs flexibility at times, as a result the employees had a lot more goodwill to be flexible for the needs of the business in return. I have learned from this and now I am a manager I take every request as equal, and honestly everyone goes above and beyond so I am happy to make things easier for them and I think my team appreciate it. My manager is also big on this, and would be horrified if non parents were treated as less.

My place of work offers the same flexibility for everyone - it works well as everyone has different preferences. Only rule is that they prefer everyone in each department to agree one time a week when they are all to allow for team meetings etc (ours is Weds morning).

I have worked in places before where I couldn’t even go to the dentist if I needed to so it’s a welcome change!

For those who are child free: I bet you would rush out of work if your partner/ parent/ close friend is ringing you because they had an accident or other emergency. And I bet your employer will let you go, no questions asked.

I needed to leave once because I was very upset having just heard that an extended family member had died. My boss claimed to be sympathetic but made me sit with him for 90 minutes before I could go to fill him on some things. None of which was urgent AND, I was just asking to leave early that one day as I was crying and upset and wanted to get under control. I was back in the next day as normal.

Lots of employers are F*ckers. Quite often, these are the ones who seem to favour parents - it's because they're more scared of being sued for discrimination if they don't "allow" it for parents. But those parents (usually women) suffer in long term career prospects.

My current team is great. Incredibly flexible for all.

Previous workplaces.. Not so much. I'm pretty organised and lost count of the amount of times I was expected to cancel leave in the summer holidays or at Christmas because someone hadn't arranged childcare/ booked leave in advance. I'd always stand my ground but someone less assertive would struggle.

We also used to open late a few days a week. If someone was off sick, the childfree would be expected to pick up the slack. I had a paid for class on the nights I wasn't working. I wouldn't work until someone had refunded the class cost.