to wonder why do we treat picky eaters like their 'naughty'?

[calpolatdawn]

Ive always disagreed with this,making particular eaters as children feel awful and 'the parents made them. that way' maybe because theres ASD in my family we don't have a choice of 'shoving anything infront of them' and making them eat it. Even non ASD people have sensory issues regarding food, its usually smell, texture, taste, is it 'soggy' food or 'lumpy'. As a child i was picky, my mum didn't cook 5 meals she just didn't make things she knew i wouldn't like. and put serving dishes on the table so i picked up what i would eat and left what i wouldn't, there was never ever power fights, when i got older if i was being arsy i was told to make something myself then. And i would. No battles. As an Adult i am still particular more so with fruit than veg, i only eat 2 types of fruit and will to this day not eat lumpy yoghurts. Im not being 'whiny' or difficult, its not easy going through life with aversion to foods and going to a buffet and sighing that you could only eat 3 things. I don't think anyone would choose to be like that. I have 1 child who is like me, and one who isnt and is much more flexible. Is it just me who feels making children feel naughty for being picky eaters is wrong?

I agree OP
almost from weaning DD was described as "fussy" around food. absolutely no idea why, me and DH enjoy food, have varied tastes and generally eat healthily and well but she was just really really difficult with food. We tried various things - including advice from the GP that "no child will starve themselves" so don't offer alternatives (she did), punishments, rewards, etc. Most people didn't understand and family members tried to force it - which usually resulted in her being sick
We discovered that the issue seemed to be around textures and food being mixed together or with sauce on so we had to offer very "clean" food and allow her to put things on her plate herself.
Shes now 15 and a vegetarian but has a very healthy and varied diet, she does find some foods disgusting such as mashed potato but apart from that shes fine
Shes NT and we've no idea why she is like this but it was awful, I used to end up in tears most mealtimes, which made it worse I'm sure but her brother has never had any food issues other than the usual wanting ketchup on everything and trying to avoid broccoli!
Yes, some dc are fussy but some have genuine issues around food for no apparent reason.

Betcha that most kids with food issues wouldn't have them if junk wasn't an alternative. It's excusing laziness to say "my kids can't eat greens because issues, or because ASD"

Attributes related to ASD are not caused by parental laziness.

Firstly, you're wrong to presume every autistic person with a restricted diet only eats 'junk food' (which, FYI, there is no such thing as junk food or good food or bad food. Food is just food).

Secondly, the reason that a lot of people with sensory issues related to food prefer mass-produced processed foods is because they are bland, they're easy to chew/swallow, they have a uniform texture, a uniform taste, a uniform shape, and there are no unexpected surprises.

if junk wasn't an alternative

And to come back to this line, DS had food issues from weaning before he even knew 'junk' existed. When he first began weaning he would become very distressed at the touch and taste of food and had nothing but milk until he was nearly 8m old because he wouldn't eat beyond the first bite of any meal. But yeah, I'm sure he was holding out for nuggets and chips.

if junk wasn’t an alternative

Now, see that’s exactly what offends me. Why do you assume that junk is readily available? Not all picky eaters only eat junk. Not all picky eaters have ever had much junk. You’re making the assumption that everyone that has a child with issues around food has been a lazy parent that plonks pizza and chips on the table every night. That’s a lazy assumption to make. My life would be much easier if my picky eating DD would eat baked beans and pizza.

Picky eaters are such a first world issue. So yes, the majority of children who are fussy can be interpreted as naughty. They can manipulate the situation to get what they do (or don't) want. Food or other items. A small minority of children cannot eat certain foods for varying reasons. This, I assume, is not the category of child you're asking is naughty or not.
Early indulgence by adults of a child's likes, dislikes or simple preferences is a massive problem that leads to fussiness. Having said that a child can be very hard to sway and taking that and the adults circumstances into account (single parent, guilt, working and rushing, stress levels etc) it's very easy to find yourself on a slippery slope of 'encouraging' fussy eating. I fear I'm waffling but fussiness can largely be avoided and overcome but the reasons it's there in the first place may be harder and more complex to resolve.

I am the daughter of a fussy eater, have a husband who is very fussy and my eldest is near bloody impossible to feed. It was frustrating as a child, I used to visit friends' houses and be amazed at the variety on a plate, amazing home cooked foods, veg that wasn't carrots from a tin.... then have to come home to Frey Bentos pies with beans or fish fingers, with more beans. Everything had beans, we only had veg with Sunday dinner. It did give me a bad mentality with food, we weren't poor, there was no reason why we couldn't afford a healthier option but living with a parent who only liked 'beige foods' with beans made choice very limited.

I won't lie, it did make me judgemental and thought very much that 'no wonder generations get into bad habits with food'. My husband was exactly the same when I met him, his mother is very similar (actually, I think she's worse - the stories I could tell about trying to feed her!). However, over time it's been quite easy to see that my husband has ASD traits, definitely sensory issues. This became very apparent from day one of weaning my eldest. No food is of interest to him, certain textures can lead to screaming fits. Had hours at the table, begging him just to try a carrot, having only eaten a tiny bit of meat. He'll eat a few fruit, but veg, rice, potatoes in any form is just a no-go. No lumpy yougurt, the smooth ones are hit and miss. It's not junk addiction either, he's not into chocolate, sweeties are an occasional treat, a large amount of the beige stuff doesn't interest (apart from turkey dinosaurs, he may actually eat an entire one of those). It's exhausting, I always thought 'I'm breaking the cycle with my kids' but now feel like a huge failure. Doesn't help that I have family members who spew out the 'just don't feed them junk, if they have it then they won't starve themselves' line. Just fuck off, you have NO idea.

There are people who are just plain fussy, if you're an adult and it has no baring on how others eat then whatever. However, I've seen the struggle for those with genuine issues with food, you have no idea how difficult it is to watch the people you care about have such issues about something that seems so easy to me.

I was a picky eater. Some of it was things that children don't like and I grew out of it with time. Other things were genuine dislikes or texture/taste/smell issues and persist today. What did not help was interference and attempts to make me eat either by bribery or force. Especially vegetables- all green veg smell vile to me even as an adult and eating them gives me agonising wind and often diarrhoea. Lets not even think about the added texture nightmare that is bloody bastarding broccoli. People really don't like it but I make sure I eat plenty of the veg I do like and can eat- in my preferred texture and shape formats- instead. I have a very sharp sense of smell and I believe that if things smell bad enough to you then you probably ought not to eat them.

Attempts to meddle were harmful to my perception of food, portion control and "treats" and persist to this day. They've done more damage than just leaving me be would have done. I'm still a bit picky now but so much better than I used to be and improving all the time. I'm pretty careful about trying to balance my diet and meal content.

There are a few foods I dislike, one of those is coriander, I absolutely hate it, it’s like eating soap. My mum used to put it in so many things, as soon as I tasted it I would be sick, she would then force me to keep eating even though I would continually vomit. I then started feeling sick anytime I was forced to eat something I didn’t like, such as raw tomato.

As a late teen/adult I had bulimia, not a surprise.

When my son came to me he only ate beans, potato waffles, toast and banana. I started by adding one different thing to his plate every week, I would tell him what it was but there was zero pressure to eat it. It took about six weeks for him to try the first new food. As an almost five year old the only things he genuinely dislikes are aubergine, olives and celery. He still exhibits normal faddy childhood behaviour, at the moment he won’t eat the middle of a cucumber or a roti cut into squares.

That’s pretty ironic for someone being all preachy and judgmental over the idea of an autistic person being allowed to eat baked beans

I haven't been preachy or judgemental. I was stating that baked beans aren't a vegetable. If that's all your DC will eat then fine but let's not pretend it is a healthy or balanced diet.

Obesity and malnutrition are both on the increase. I think it is time we stop pretending that it is fine for children to live on processed or limited foods. Posters keep on going back to sensory issues or autism but for every child with issues there will be many with non who are allowed to eat favourite foods.

I mentioned my DB earlier who allows his DC to live on turkey dinosaurs, chips, 1 brand of yogurt, crisps and cheese sandwiches. The DC eats a few different foods at school. Even with that knowledge this diet continues at home in part because they feel bad for both working full time.

My grandma was brought up in abject poverty, like no shoes to wear poverty, and she is quite fussy . Won’t eat foods cooked a certain way etc. so I’m not sure it’s always a ‘rich person’ problem

There are a few foods I dislike, one of those is coriander, I absolutely hate it, it’s like eating soap.

Coriander Is apparently one of those foods that some people find the taste of completely different to others.

KKslider

Attributes related to ASD are not caused by parental laziness.

People with ASD (unless very severe) are not impervious to parental influence. ASD should therefore not be used as a cop out. People with ASD are not, and I have my own experience to bear here, some sort of alien. They do respond in their own way to the environment created for them by parents, and that includes the food environment.

Firstly, you're wrong to presume every autistic person with a restricted diet only eats 'junk food' (which, FYI, there is no such thing as junk food or good food or bad food. Food is just food)

Then you did not read my subsequent post. I have an ASD child who eats well. I am sure that luck played its part. I also think that good decision we made did as well, as I have said.

Secondly, the reason that a lot of people with sensory issues related to food prefer mass-produced processed foods is because they are bland, they're easy to chew/swallow, they have a uniform texture, a uniform taste, a uniform shape, and there are no unexpected surprises.

Which is why it is a good idea to keep them away from children as we did. Which is why it was fucking annoying to be told I was some sort of crank for doing just that.

And to come back to this line ("if junk wasn't an alternative"), DS had food issues from weaning before he even knew 'junk' existed. When he first began weaning he would become very distressed at the touch and taste of food and had nothing but milk until he was nearly 8m old because he wouldn't eat beyond the first bite of any meal. But yeah, I'm sure he was holding out for nuggets and chips.

I am sure there are exceptions. Maybe your child is one of them - I can't know. But to suggest that all children who refuse good food for junk is because of some reason like this is absurd.

crazychemist

Now, see that’s exactly what offends me ("if junk wasn't an alternative"). Why do you assume that junk is readily available? Not all picky eaters only eat junk. Not all picky eaters have ever had much junk. You’re making the assumption that everyone that has a child with issues around food has been a lazy parent that plonks pizza and chips on the table every night. That’s a lazy assumption to make. My life would be much easier if my picky eating DD would eat baked beans and pizza.

Why do I assume that junk is readily available? Is this serious?

I am sure that not all picky eaters eat junk. But the subject of this thread is problematic diet. This normally means people who eat limited diets, generally junk.

And if you want to play Offence Top Trumps, that's fine. I put up with nonsense because I objected to my young children being given rubbish, not as a treat, but as a routine thing by others. I saw (and see) other parents slagged off behind their backs for having the same standards - wierdos, cruel to their children, "they think their above us", giving their children "food for grown-ups", "no child truly likes that" and so on.

...and because of that, I reckon I get to throw some crap of my own around now. My children, one of whom is diagnosed ASD, are excellent eaters. As much as we could, we kept them away from rubbish when they were very young. We made sure they didn't latch on to particular things as children can when they have them too regularly. I made sure the cooking was tasty and varied. I got them involved with the cooking. And so on. I have just as much justification for being offended at being told that effort was all down to luck and I might as well have just got Macca's every night. My children like junk as much as the next child. That's fine, because they also appreciate healthy food, and are absolutely fine having it as an occasional treat.

I dislike the attitude that because a child now has a food condition (or SEN), there is nothing that the parent could have done at any time. That's an abdication of parental responsibility plain and simple. That's what I'm attacking. I am sure there are children who would have food issues anyway. Maybe your children are among them. I have no way of knowing. But it does nothing to refute my view that that number is probably quite small.

I just don’t think you’re doing anyone any favours if you bring them up to think it’s fine to be very picky and restrictive.

When my son came to me he only ate beans, potato waffles, toast and banana. I started by adding one different thing to his plate every week, I would tell him what it was but there was zero pressure to eat it. It took about six weeks for him to try the first new food. As an almost five year old the only things he genuinely dislikes are aubergine, olives and celery. He still exhibits normal faddy childhood behaviour, at the moment he won’t eat the middle of a cucumber or a roti cut into squares.

This^

Oh and when you live with a fussy eater, you inevitably have to keep eating what they like as you can’t just buy loads of stuff purely for yourself. DH would happily eat a diet that would make me cry with boredom but because we can’t spend endless amounts and because I’ll eat almost anything I end up having less interesting food than if he ate more widely.

@SonjaMorgan

I haven't been preachy or judgemental

Oh really:

Adults who are picky come across as childish and spoilt to me.

if your children are scared of certain foods then maybe you should consider therapy. My DC are not scared of any food.

Unless there is a medical reason for your child not eating a wide variety of foods then it's not great is it?

You're basing your whole ideology on what 'fussy eating' is based on your brother's lazy cooking. Not the same thing in the slightest.

I have an ASD child who eats well. I am sure that luck played its part. I also think that good decision we made did as well, as I have said.

Does your ASD child also have SPD? It the latter I have found from my own child (and speaking to both other parents and professionals) that is more likely to cause food issues, along with what clothes they will wear, how much noise they can cope with, messy play and etc. So again, are you making a judgement based on just your child, or a wider perspective @TomPinch? SPD doesn't always go hand in hand with ASD either, though it's often presumed that they are linked.

As for the "junk as an alternative" argument I actually said the following to my DD
You can have some more of that broccoli if you eat a chicken nugget.

My ASD child is not diagnosed with SPD. But, to be clear, the point I was making is that to say that to believe ASD = irredeemably fussy eater, is incorrect. In fact it shows ignorance of how ASD actually works, ie, how it presents in different people, how they react and so on and I used my ASD DC as an example of that (and indeed, why I feel so strongly about this topic).

For example, I once served my ASD child undercooked leek. Leek was therefore off the menu for about 5 years. That's fine because I could resort to plenty of other vegetables. There was no purpose in making an issue of it. Leek is now back on the menu now, btw.

This is not to say that there aren't plenty of ASD people with irresolvable food issues. I believe there are. Just not all, or possibly even most. But I have little patience with the attitude that "oh, there's ASD, let's all give up now".

Until I joined Mumsnet I had never heard the phrase 'beige food' . I still don't know what it actually means and what foods are 'beige'. Also Mumsnetworld seems to be the only place where perfectly normal food like beans or pizza are considering 'junk'.
All so weird.

TomPinch you’re arguing a different debate from the rest of us. You assume “picky eater” means “junk food” and that’s simply not true and is a baseless assumption.

There are loads of picky eaters (especially those with ASD) who will only eat bread, or only eat carrots, or whatever. It has nothing to do with junk food necessarily and it’s plain wrong and judgemental to assume picky eaters prefer or are allowed junk food.

(Yes, I’m sure SOME picky eaters prefer junk, but that’s really not what this thread is about.)

To give you an example of ASD picky eating, when I was a child I saw something very disgusted which was yellow. For years I refused to eat anything yellow as a result. I’d eat all vegetables except sweetcorn. All fruit except bananas.

Also Mumsnetworld seems to be the only place where perfectly normal food like beans or pizza are considering 'junk'.

There's nothing wrong with pizza or beans, but obviously it's healthier to have a varied diet. The trouble with MN is that many posters have issues with food on the opposite end of the scale. Eating anything but a salad every day is gluttony, and giving 'crap' like sweets or chicken nuggets even a glance of a side eye equates to a lifetime of obesity and being a burden to the NHS.

I have met 2 children who were malnourished because of there VERY limited diet. My mum just cooked what we had, she did not expect them to eat all but to try it. The younger child began to try and began to eat. The older one found it very stressful. In the end I think it was one reason that they were removed from mum. It,s one thing to be fussy. It,s another to have such a limited diet that it is effecting ones health. BBC did the house of faddy eaters or something like that a few years ago they showed very clearly that one can expand ones diet with encouragement and sometimes psychiatric help. (Hypnotherepy/Counseling.).

RapunzelinQuarantine,

It generally does mean that though. I don't think there's any doubt about it. So it's not good trying to separate that off and pretend it's irrelevant.

bookmum08,

Well, it all depends doesn't it?

Beans made at home from dried haricots, tomatoes, onions, garlic, herbs, bacon: not junk. Or not in my view at least.

Pizza made at home from white flour, yeast, water, tomatoes, garlic, salami, herbs, mozzarella: I wouldn't consider that junk either.

Bought from the supermarket freezer, or in a tin, with goodness knows what else in it? I would think best avoided, or at least we always have.