to wonder why do we treat picky eaters like their 'naughty'?

[calpolatdawn]

Ive always disagreed with this,making particular eaters as children feel awful and 'the parents made them. that way' maybe because theres ASD in my family we don't have a choice of 'shoving anything infront of them' and making them eat it. Even non ASD people have sensory issues regarding food, its usually smell, texture, taste, is it 'soggy' food or 'lumpy'. As a child i was picky, my mum didn't cook 5 meals she just didn't make things she knew i wouldn't like. and put serving dishes on the table so i picked up what i would eat and left what i wouldn't, there was never ever power fights, when i got older if i was being arsy i was told to make something myself then. And i would. No battles. As an Adult i am still particular more so with fruit than veg, i only eat 2 types of fruit and will to this day not eat lumpy yoghurts. Im not being 'whiny' or difficult, its not easy going through life with aversion to foods and going to a buffet and sighing that you could only eat 3 things. I don't think anyone would choose to be like that. I have 1 child who is like me, and one who isnt and is much more flexible. Is it just me who feels making children feel naughty for being picky eaters is wrong?

I think it depends on what you define as "picky".

For a start I'd rule out people with food allergies/intolerances/sensory issues due to ASD for example. That's not picky - it's a medical issue.

I also think of people making ethical food choices as exempt from being picky eg vegetarians/vegans.

As for everyone else, I genuinely don't know anyone who would eat anything...

Myself and my parents will eat most things (and I like others was brought up to eat what I was given) but even we draw the line at Tripe and kidneys (and DM would struggle to eat a hot curry)....I'd gag if I put them in my mouth and yes whilst I probably could force them down if I was literally starving to death, I'd rather miss a meal and go a bit hungry in normal circumstances.

That said I obviously have food preferences as do most people.

Whilst I'll eat sprouts I'd prefer another green veg like spinach/cabbage/broccoli.

When I'm cooking for friends and family I want them to enjoy what they eat so of course I'll take their food preferences into account.

I see no reason to cook a family dinner where the vegetable dish is sweetcorn knowing none of us really like it but if I was served it at a friends house I'd eat it, in the same way I wouldn't serve a Vindaloo if my parents were coming to dinner - why would you?

So that said, when I think of picky eaters I think of people who both have a very small list of preferred foods and are unwilling to eat anything but those foods and yes I find them irritating.

I generally have far more leeway for younger children in this regard who are still experiencing some foods for the first time and whose food palate is still developing eg my DS didn't like olives when he was small but likes them now as a teen and I'd agree with PP's saying it's counter productive to try and force them to eat a large portion of something they dislike.

The rule in our house is that you try everything - even if it's just a very tiny mouthful because otherwise how do you know if you do/don't like it? Even if you disliked something when you ate it last year you might like it now (eg the olives) so have a small taste (or even a lick when the children were very small) and see how you get on.

But I am confounded by adults who simply refuse to eat anything but food they prefer and won't even try food they don't like the idea of even if they have never tasted it.

I find it quite immature and a bit petulant if I'm honest.

A friends husband is an absolute PITA to cook for. He'll only eat a very limited range of foods (no medical reasons) and thus if they come round for dinner his food preferences dictate the meal for everyone else.

By way of examples he'll only eat potato in the form of chips or roast potato. The only other vegetable he likes is cauliflower but only in the form of cauliflower cheese. He won't eat salad. Pasta only in a tomato based sauce. Chicken only if it's fried or roasted. No fish/seafood and so on.

I love cooking and enjoy making a wide variety of foods.

When friends come for dinner I might make a big Middle Eastern feast with lots of dishes, make a Chinese hot pot with lots of meat, seafood and veg to cook in the spicy numbing broth or take inspiration from Mexico with chicken in a mole sauce with lots of side dishes etc

Some friends might be trying a certain dish for the first time and that's part of the fun for them and me.

However if he's coming I'm restricted to roast chicken or lasagne pretty much because he wouldn't even try anything outside of his food comfort zone.

The upshot being I simply don't invite them very often because it's tedious to cook the same "boring" menu for all my guests time and again or alternatively watch him pulling faces, verbally denigrating and picking at (or refusing to try) a meal I've spend hours preparing.

@Reginabambina

I hated parsley until my mid twenties. I now love it.

And that's great. I'm aware that yes, sometimes adults do start to eat previously disliked foods. But my point was why keep wasting food by making something I know he won't eat. People always say "they'll learn to like it if they try it enough times". Well 15 years of 'trying' some foods and be still won't eat them. I used to put things on his plate and he had to build up to tasting it. So touch it. Pick it up. Kiss it. Lick it. Bite it. This was what the HV told me to do. If I make a salad I always ask if he wants some pepper with his. Last time he tasted it was probably last summer. He tried a bit and didn't like it. Last week he asked to try an olive. He will now tolerate finely chopped onions in risotto. He would rather I didnt put them in it but knows they help the flavour. He picks them out if he can.
When he was smaller, and still ate meat, he wouldn't eat most meals where the ingredients were mixed up. So shepherds pie/bolognese. Corned beef hash - he would eat corned beef and mash separately.
He happily ate heart casserole but wasn't keen on liver.

I've never thought he was overly fussy, but then I've been feeding him his whole life so I'm used to it. Regarding eating out, if he can get pizza or fish and chips he's more than happy (provided he doesn't have to have beans with the fish and chips. He loves peas but beans are a no). Most people who's houses we go to for dinner are happy to accommodate his preferences. To be fair thats mainly family and they just cook a couple of veggie sausages to go with whatever sides we have. But again they are used to feeding feeding him so it's not difficult for them. Even my 4 year old niece knows he has 'special sausages' because he can't eat our ones. I offer to provide veggie food when we go anywhere else because I'm aware there is a cost element.
Maybe he'll get less fussy as he gets older. Maybe he won't.
And yes, maybe to some extent fussy eaters are fussy because they can be. And isn't that fucking wonderful. That we are fortunate enough to have the luxury of choice! People have told me "he'd have eaten meat in the war. They had no choice". But they did. Veggies got extra cheese and egg rations. He would be perfectly happy with that!

Any time we've been to friends or family to eat we've been told ahead of time what is being made. I don't eat fish so the times where there has been a fish dish I've mentioned at that point "I don't eat fish but it's fine, I'm happy just to have and someone else can have my share". It works in reverse too and when we have friends or family round I'll say in advance what I'm making and if anyone doesn't like any of it that's their opposite say, for example we had family over for a roast dinner back in February and I was roasting a chicken so DB reminded me that SIL doesn't like chicken but is happy just to have extra veg instead. No fuss, no drama or angst. Surely most rational adults operate like this?

Opposite = opportunity to say

I have one DS with ASD whose diet is pretty limited and have been pregnant (shocker) and had a million food aversions so I can sympathise with fussy eaters tbh.

@KKSlider that's what we do too.
Friend "would you like to come for dinner in fri?"
Me "yes please"
Friend "great. Any foods you dont like? We were going to make bolognese"
Me "sounds great. Ds1 won't eat bolognese but will be happy with pasta and cheese
Sorry!"
Friend "dont be sorry. See you Friday"

I'm sure I've seen studies which say that there is a specific phase which toddlers go through where they get very fussy with food (having recently learned the word 'no', pushing boundaries, mild neophobia). This wanes after age 3/4 and if you try foods they would have point blank refused at 2 for the most part they will try it. I do wonder if a lot of fussy eaters are so because parents have given up trying at toddler age (understandably) but have never then gone back and tried again when they're a bit older.
I do find most adults I have come across who are fussy eaters tend to be of the type who admit to never even having tried the food they state not to like!

That we are fortunate enough to have the luxury of choice! People have told me "he'd have eaten meat in the war. They had no choice". But they did. Veggies got extra cheese and egg rations. He would be perfectly happy with that!

My grandfather is now in his nineties and has been a vegetarian since he was a very small boy. He was sent to a strict boarding school at 7 and you had to clear your plate. He used to put the meat into his pockets until he could get rid of it! There are absolutely children without SEN who would prefer to go hungry than eat things they don't like. My instinct is to leave them to it.

@PorpentiaScamander I was just trying to illustrate that a 15 year old is unlikely to have full formed tastes. Just think of all the gin lovers of whiskey fanatics out there, I doubt they enjoy the taste of their favourite scotch at the age of 15. 15 is really young. Yes he may hate peppers for the rest of his life but he’s far too young to write anything off yet. People go off foods as well. At his age I loved cheese. Now I’m not keen (makes me feel a bit ill). Ive also developed allergies in adulthood so there’s that element as well. Fifteen is really really young.

Where did I say anything about forcing it? I said to be a parent which means not just giving up at the first hurdle.

I wouldn’t punish for food not tried / eaten but you bet I would have a problem with poor manners, pulling faces and being ungrateful and rude.

@Littlepond and @DeRigueurMortis have summed this up really well.

Picky eaters dictate what others can or can’t eat, why would you want to encourage that?

All the people who have been forced to eat things that makes them vomit

In what world is that beneficial

This was me at primary school with one particular lunch

It gave me a lifelong aversion to that particular food, rather than the opposite

I have a friend who will only eat certain things like plain pizza and pasta, chocolate etc so it has caused issues at parties or when they come over for a meal. Her parents pandered to her too much and it's definitely not cute at our age now! I remember she came to my (poor) house for tea as s kid and asked if our beans were Heinz. My mum lied and said yes, she couldn't tell the difference! ASD etc aside obviously but they usually just need to grow up IMO.

@thelastteacake

Exactly - it's this issue of dictating what others eat and furthermore sucking the joy out of eating and enjoying food for everyone around them.

The DH of the friend I mentioned is awful for this.

I mentioned a Middle Eastern feast I cooked for about 14 friends (for DH's birthday celebration).

I'd chosen it because 4 of our friends are vegetarian. It meant I could do loads of lovely veggie dishes (think spiced stewed aubergines, stuffed tomato's, falafel, homemade hummus and pita bread plus a load of other side dishes and salads) with the only meat dish being a slow roast spiced shoulder of lamb.

There must have been about 20 things to eat on the table.

He wouldn't try anything except the homemade pita bread whilst complaining it wasn't as nice as his usual white sliced and poking at the other dishes with a sneer/grimace asked how the rest of us could possibly eat it - just rude.

When I made lasagne the previous time his only bloody comment was it would have been better it I'd served chips with it instead of a salad (hence me not bothering to cater for him the next time round re the birthday dinner).

When we went out as a group he demand we went to specific restaurants that served the food he liked - which was largely akin to that which you'd find on a typical kids menu.

Everyone just got utterly fed up with him - we just started choosing restaurants regardless of if they served the very limited meals he would eat (so they didn't come) and when hosting dinner, cooking what we wanted and then when he was rude and sneering simply not inviting him again.

The sad thing is his wife is lovely and was genuinely embarrassed by his behaviour but she was the one that lost out because he simply refused to even try to expand his food preferences beyond the foods he'd eaten as a young child and behaved rudely in rejecting anything else.

It is funny how a lot of these picky eaters have a 'condition' and it is not their fault. It is a rich person's problem. Not many picky eaters in Ethiopia or the Yemen.........

Except tons of people who have experienced starvation or extreme poverty still have foods they can’t eat, and it’s well documented that famine survivors struggle or flat out refuse to eat unfamiliar Western foods.

It’s so weird how hostile people are to the idea of autistic people making their own life choices when choices don’t affect you in any way.

It is funny how a lot of these picky eaters have a 'condition' and it is not their fault. It is a rich person's problem. Not many picky eaters in Ethiopia or the Yemen.........

It's funny how all these people who can't eat peanuts without fatal anaphylaxis have an "allergy" and it's not their fault. Not many peanut allergy sufferer in Ethiopia or Yemen.

That is how ridiculous you sound.

Children with ARFID living in places where there are no food options die. Simple as that.

Do you always put the word 'condition' in inverted commas? Because it implies you think conditions like ARFID, autism, and sensory processing disorder don't exist.

My dad grew up in Yemen by the way and is one of the fussiest eaters I know.

@Winderlust yes you are absolutely right about that. There are French studies showing that a child may need to be offered a new food up to 11 times before it starts to enjoy it. Many parents in the UK and US will give up on the first go, or soon after and declare that the child "doesn't like" a certain food. In fact this is almost never the case, and if it is it is never permanent (allergies and special needs aside). In France they just say "oh well, next time you might like it", (no shaming) and they nearly always do.

A friend of mine's toddler son wouldn't eat tomatoes one time, and she started saying "he doesn't like tomatoes" whenever we met up for occasions or for lunch with other mums. By the time he was 5 he used to say "I don't eat tomatoes" and this ruled out all sorts of normal high street places like Pizza Express etc in case he was presented with tomatoes. It turned out he'd only ever been offered them on two occasions. He changed his mind when an older boy he looked up to said that tomatoes were his favourite!

It's also not a coincidence that his mum is a ridiculously fussy eater. Refuses to go anywhere that sells anything vaguely spicey, hates cheese, hates pasta, and all manner of other things. Her friendship group really struggle when arranging meet ups.

Adult fussy eaters are a total PITA.

"Picky eating is a first world problem tbh
This. It’s a luxury to be able to reject food. If you’re hungry enough you’ll eat anything."

Reading novels set in the 19th C and early 20th with people feeling extreme hunger, yes, they would have eaten anything, but they still had strong preferences and food they didn't like.

@TomPinch yes, I am serious with “why assume junk is readily available” - my daughter is 3yo, it’s not like she’s going to sneak a McDonald’s on the way home from school! And it isn’t fair to assume that I am a lazy parent because my child doesn’t eat as well as I’d like. Prior to developing an obstruction in her throat that prevented her swallowing, she ate very well - we did predominantly baby-led weaning with healthy home cooked food and she ate a wide variety of vegetables perfectly happily. However, reintroducing solids after a 9 month gap didn’t go well at all, and she is now extremely picky and won’t eat anything hard to swallow (which unfortunately includes a lot of vegetables) or most “wet” things (soup, baked beans, porridge). Of course I am continuing to expose her to these things, but with no pressure towards her AS I HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED BY A PROFESSIONAL. I involve my daughter with cooking as much as is realistic with a 3yo, and we grow some fruit at home to encourage an interest and under normal circumstances we would go to my parents who grow lots of vegetables so that she could enjoy getting veg from the garden and having it for dinner. But that doesn’t stop her gagging if encouraged to eat anything unfamiliar, nor would it help the fact that she would rather go hungry than eat most foods. What exactly would you have me do differently? Her dietician says that her diet, while unvaried, has everything she needs to stay healthy, and she has a vitamin supplement with dinner every night.

The OP was taking about picky eaters. Not specifically about children who only eat junk. What I object to is your apparent assumption that if parents could only be bothered to cook a varied and healthy diet, there wouldn’t be picky eaters.

There is always an assumption on MN that picky = junk food.

There is no such thing as junk food, this is from DS' doctor and dietician. Food is food and attaching labels to it such as good, bad, junk, etc actually compounds food issues. While some foods have more health benefits than others and we should try to eat as many of those as possible, when you break things down protein is protein regardless of whether it comes from a chicken nugget or a chicken leg.

There are French studies showing that a child may need to be offered a new food up to 11 times before it starts to enjoy it. Many parents in the UK and US will give up on the first go
You can ask many parents of Fussy eaters and they'll tell you they've tried this. It's so easy to judge

By the way the people saying Fussy eaters are a pita, you hardly sound like a joy to be around yourselves!!!

No sane person will ever starve.