Help me with my ‘good time’ DH

[Jigglypuff89]

Hi all,

I’m really struggling with my DHs behaviour and lockdown seems to have amplified it. I’m quite an organised, methodical, boring person and when we met, I was attracted to DHs spontaneity and ‘good time’ attitude. I felt he really enriched my world as I’m bad at letting go.

10 years down the line I’m at breaking point. We have 3 DC, aged 7, 5 and 3 and he applies this who cares’ attitude to every aspect of our lives and I feel like I’m constantly picking up the slack. Worse still, as the children get older, they associate him with a good time and me with boring old chores. Finally, I feel I have to be almost more rigid to compensate for his choices.

For example, with the kids I can’t ask him to do a single thing and get it done. He has never turned up to a parents evening or a school play, even if he’s promised. I once made the mistake of not taking time off on the assurance he would attend parents evening, in the end I had to rearrange and attend another day. He will never ever ask the children to tidy, or do their homework or make their beds etc. I’ve tried really hard to hold firm and to lower my expectations. As an example, when my youngest was a baby, I’d ask him to do bedtime with the older two. He wouldn’t brush their teeth, wouldn’t remind them to wee, wouldn’t even put them in pjs!! So I thought, I can’t let the children suffer but I don’t want to let him do nothing. So I started brushing their teeth, dressing them for bed/ toileting and then passing them to him. He wouldn’t read them a bedtime story but I know that’s not essential (like teeth brushing) so I didn’t mention it, I make sure we read and snuggle during the day. However, he would just put them in bed and not stop them from talking / playing or hand them his phone if asked. They were only little and needed to be told to go back in bed. The result was the kids would be up far too late and impossible to get to bed, they’d behave poorly the next day and I still wouldn’t get an evening. Whenever we talked about it he’d promise to do better. He’s never nasty or mean or horrible with it, just everything has to be fun and easy. The kids associate nasty mummy with forcing them to go to bed and daddy as the fun parent.

This is just one example but it happens in every single area of our lives. I just can’t figure out how to get around it? I hate to say I’ve considered it but I think even separating wouldn’t help, as he’ll still be as lax when he has them. Has anyone coped with this?

Jo Frost (Supernanny) has a great technique for parents called ‘step up/step back’ & could be worth watching. Although your DH sounds like he actually needs to flipping show up before he can actually step up!! I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. You sound like a brilliant mum.

He has never turned up to a parents evening or a school play, even if he’s promised

This is possibly the worst bit for me. Surely hewants to see his DC doing stuff and to be proud of them? Plus, don't they notice he breaks these promises and lets them down? They will soon, if not already.

What's he like about doing boring stuff for himself, e.g. his washing, getting food for himself, renewing his car insurance, all that? Does that miraculously get done? If so he just seems utterly selfish and not to really love his kids. Love is IMO tied in with being willing to put yourself out for someone else's benefit and it doesn't sound like he ever does that. The fun things don't count because he enjoys those himself.
If those things get done because you do them, then I wouldn't do them anymore. Seriously. However petty it feels. I would lay it out that you will no longer do the boring bits of his life for him. And the next step is divorce if he doesn't respond to that.

You sound really great OP.

But you married beneath you.

He sounds like one of life's selfish wasters.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

It's exactly what he wants to do. Nothing.

His is the type of personality that is so shallow and vacuous, if you divorced him, it wouldn't register.

He doesn't care enough to bother.

Parents do the boring, routine stuff, because they care, that's the difference.

He just doesn't care.

You and your children deserve better.

His is the type of personality that is so shallow and vacuous, if you divorced him, it wouldn't register.

Actually, I think this is more likely than what I posted (that he's trying to push you away) because it seems like he's always been this way.

Does he show any real emotions, OP? An ex of mine used to present himself as this "chilled, happy" persona. In reality, he was just detached from his emotions. His childhood had been pretty bad (mum left home, dad was an alcoholic) and I think switching off from everything and pretending (even to himself) not to care about anything, was a coping mechanism. He also used to pretend to be 'fun' in order to get out of taking responsibility for anything. His favourite expression was "it'll work itself out!" Except it was always me making sure things "worked themselves out".

His favourite expression was "it'll work itself out!" Except it was always me making sure things "worked themselves out"

I used to know someone like that, who avoided taking responsibility for anything. When asked what he was going to do about a problem, he would say

“ I’m letting matters take their course “.

Which meant doing nothing until it got bad enough that someone else had to step in.

Pompous git.

OP you seem really worried that being responsible will make you unpopular with your own children. You describe yourself as being staid, reliable and organised as if these things are undesirable and make you boring; they don't, they make you a mature, responsible adult which are highly desirable traits for a parent to have. Your children might not appreciate everything you do for their benefit now but they too will become adults and they will understand then.

You place great emphasis on the fact that your husband is not nasty as if this is something you should be grateful for. I would say this is setting the bar very low. He might order a take away in lieu of cooking dinner but that is due to laziness and not generosity. The fact that he can't even show up for parents evening even when he has promised to speaks volumes about his engagement with child rearing.

My dad was very pleasant, my mum less so but even as a child I could see my mum was run ragged as my dad opted out if all responsibility. I use to tell her to leave him. I loved my dad but I could recognise he was useless and my mum was superwoman by comparison. When my dad died I felt sad but when my mum died, despite an often very difficult relationship (she had significant mental health issues) it took me years to process the grief. She was such a significant part of forming who I am today; despite her own difficulties she was a parent and I respected her a great deal. I don't know if that helps but it's just my own experience.

It's great to be laid back enough to not sweat the small stuff and maybe you would feel that way if your husband stepped up but if you were more relaxed your children simply wouldn't have any parenting at all. I think it's unlikely he will change.

Sounds like he just hasn't changed. What you used to love about him, you now don't like.
Of course you can argue that he has responsibilities and needs to grow up, but you could also argue that he is who he's always been. You knew who he was when you chose to have children with him??

He is who he's always been but that is very unusual. Most people change their behaviour, though not their personality, when they have children. It's usually possible to extrapolate that a kind person will extend their kindness to their children, a patient person their patience, a selfish person their selfishness and so on.

Some post-DC traits are not predictable though e.g. when a man who habitually looks after himself; physically, mentally, practically and professionally and is kind and generous to his wife, changes, by failing to extend those behaviours to his children and withdrawing meaningful kindness from his wife.

Lazy cunt.Sorry.

I'm coming from a similarish, resposible, organised perspective as you OP, so may be fundamentally misunderstanding something here but, what I've always felt about these sort of 'so laid back I'm prostrate' people, is that maintaining the artifice of their coolness must be so effortful.

They must have to restrain themselves from reacting to things, showing enthusiasm, jumping in and sorting something out that's right in front of them, or organising something the night before while it's in their mind, rather than coolly leaving it to fester. It always seems such an effortful act to keep up.

It’s sounds like he IS organised about his own stuff. He holds down a well paid job.

It’s just he doesn't have to be organised about anything to do with the house or children because he has staff.

And he’s learned the value of strategic incompetence.

Why on Earth would he change ? His current behaviour is working REALLY well for him.

You're taking your 'scripts' from either his family or yours. That if you decide to be Your Dad, you'll be boring. Better to be Your Mum or His Dad - because they look more fun.

But you should create your own dynamic here. I look at this and see the Slack Stealer TOTALLY living off YOU - not the other way around.

the slack is only good because it's the slack!

The slack without anything else is just.... unsettling.

If you left him, you'd get your slack back. Your 5 year old wouldn't be seeing you ALWAYS making him DO THINGS... he'd see you creating fun times too. There would be no 'you always do this...'

If he had to parent alone, your 5 year old would start to see what he DOESN'T do. Because it isn't just no telling him to tidy up his toys. It's no REAL ATTENTION. No interaction. Come on - you KNOW that the real deal for kids is someone who is there for them, who does stuff. He does FUCK ALL but it is CONCEALED by the fact that he turned up when it's Slack Time and pushes himself to the front.

I would take a bit of proactive action in the first instance - sit down with him and agree the absolute basics for the kids. Not the fun 'one-off' days, but the normal, standard days:

Do they need to brush their teeth every day? Once, or twice?
Do they need to have three meals a day? Do they need to have fruit and veg every day? One portion of each, or more?
Do they need a bedtime story every night?
Do they need to wear PJs to bed?
Should they have a set bedtime? If not, are they allowed to fall asleep downstairs? etc

It's absolute basics, but get him to tell you what he thinks should be the minimum level of parenting.

Then ask him if he agrees that those basic tasks take effort, and should that be split between both parents? You may have to pin him down on this - I bet he'll try and avoid answering. But get a clear yes or no. (If it's a 'no', that will be very telling.)

Then write out the list of basics and stick it to the fridge with a column for you and a column for him. Both tick off each time you do one of the basics. Make it absolutely clear that you expect the ticks to be about the same in both of your columns.

If he doesn't do something, of course you'll have to do it. Because you've both agreed these are necessities. And they have to happen every day. So when he doesn't do his half, he forces you to take on his work.

Maybe having it in black and white will help. Maybe it won't. But at least you'll know you've tried, and (when it comes to that time) he'll know exactly why you're leaving him.

I know someone who tried the list method. It didn’t work.

Her husband worked around by saying “ kids your mum wants you to brush your teeth”.

Kids complain.

“ I know, I think you did it this morning and that’s enough but your mum wants them done again and I’m getting into trouble for it “.

Lots of “ poor daddy and mean old mum”.

Then he went back to his wife and said “ the kids are refusing to do their teeth so you will have to do it “.

Then mum has to be mean mum again AND do the work. Dad gets to be wounded hero.

Or he just asks “ kids have you done your teeth “ and they say yes so everyone is fine. He doesn’t check of course, that’s his wife’s job.

So it takes longer to check they have done it , then argue, then makes kids do teeth, than it would in the first place to have done it yourself.

Or he turns it into an attack on her parenting “ the kids should be old enough to do it themselves without being reminded - why haven’t you taught them ? “

Or a moral issue “ So I trust and believe my own children, it’s very sad that you don’t “.

Thsi is what these men rely on. Almost every job is quicker to do it yourself than to argue with husband, argue with kids then DIY.

yes, he does treat me and the kids and make plans, loved to buy gifts, he’s very good at one off and fun things but rubbish at the every day things which really matter to me

A couple of my mates are with people like this.

It's as if the dad in question thinks of doing any parenting or household chore as "helping" the mum.

So when they do something they want a well done and a fanfare, or stick it on Instagram, but don't just get on and do that stuff that keeps a family moving.

These are the dads who seem to be praised for "babysitting" if mum does something for herself. Babysitting. When actually they're just looking after their own children.

Never heard a man say "yeah Jen's at home babysitting the kids" when he's on a night out. It's just the default.

Pisses me off so much.

Is he a bit like that op?

He needs to realising that contributing the day to day, bare minimum stuff isn't "helping" you, it's what he should be doing anyway.

My older girls dad was like this and it ended our marriage. He just wanted to be fun all the time, when I did a 6am-2pm shift on a Saturday I'd come home and find the house a tip, kids in their pj's and him watching footy. If I had an evening out he'd send them to his mums overnight and he always prioritised football over their parents evenings! He wouldn't dream of doing housework or shopping or cleaning even though we both worked full time. In the end I hit 30 having been with him since school and decided I wasn't spending the rest of my life like that. Life actually got easier after we split!

After we separated I offered 50/50 for the girls to spend time with him as we lived very near to each other but within the space of a year that had gone down to them just going for tea once a week, always at his mums and he thought that it was "cool" to say they could choose when to go and see him. They now barely bother and its all his own fault.

*I would take a bit of proactive action in the first instance - sit down with him and agree the absolute basics for the kids. Not the fun 'one-off' days, but the normal, standard days:

Do they need to brush their teeth every day? Once, or twice?
Do they need to have three meals a day? Do they need to have fruit and veg every day? One portion of each, or more?
Do they need a bedtime story every night?
Do they need to wear PJs to bed?
Should they have a set bedtime? If not, are they allowed to fall asleep downstairs? etc

It's absolute basics, but get him to tell you what he thinks should be the minimum level of parenting.

Then ask him if he agrees that those basic tasks take effort, and should that be split between both parents? You may have to pin him down on this - I bet he'll try and avoid answering. But get a clear yes or no. (If it's a 'no', that will be very telling.)

I would have no time for this nonsense. He is an adult, he just needs to grow up or move on.

I think, try to get him to go to marriage counselling with you. Sounds like you'll have to go in the same car or he won't show up. This should a) show him you're at your wits end, and b) allow someone else to point out to him how his behaviour is impacting you and the children. Ideally c) start to unpick some of his childhood to see if his behaviour is a response to that so he can learn to undo it and not inflict the same on his own kids.
Please don't think of yourself as boring. You are not boring, you're responsible. But if you're starting to feel that way then maybe have a day where you don't care and the jobs don't get done. Maybe on a Friday night you all get to chill watching movies, eating crap and the kids can go to bed in their clothes and forget to brush their teeth and for that one night you don't sweat it.
And book some fun time with the kids at the park or playing with them and their toys so you're also the fun one, just the one that knows Family Team all has to pull together on chores when the fun is over, because Mummy is not the butler and she deserves not to be the one who picks up after everyone else.

Ugh, that must be exhausting. And there is nothing good time about rotten teeth and emotional neglect. He needs to change.