AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

It's very rude talking in front of her in a language she dosent understand. Especially in lockdown when she has no one else to talk to face to face. This would drive me mad

There’s no way I could be in a long term relationship with someone, and not have learned their language.

You didn't learn English for your partner, neither did your mother. She is said she would learn if you will start teaching her, but you can't be bothered and don't want the hassle, but you want to speak it with your mother all the time while you are around your partner. Sounds like you quite like the fact she can't understand you.

There's no way I could be in a long term relationship with someone who excludes me from their conversations deliberately and unnecessarily.

People are massively underestimating the effort required to become good enough at a language to join in with conversations.

I am naturally pretty good at learning languages. Got a top grade in French, Spanish and Latin at GCSE. For Spanish I had 3 hours a week of lessons and about 2 hours a week of homework for 3 years. So 5 40 3 = 600 hours committed to learning Spanish. With my elastic teenage brain and an above average language learning ability.

Just after GCSEs we went on holiday to Spain. I was very excited as the hotel we stayed in also had lots of Spanish teenagers and I wanted to chat to them in Spanish. I was a very pretty 15 year old so when you add it to my “allure” of speaking Spanish your average Spanish lad was pretty keen to chat to me too!

And I couldn’t! One on one I was fine. I could have a (slightly stilted) conversation. But in a group it was impossible. Group conversations go fast. The subject changes constantly, there are jokes, plays on words and although I knew (roughly) what the conversation is about I couldn’t join in. I was just too slow.

I also ended up with a splitting headache after a couple of hours due to the level of concentration needed. After day 2 I skulked off and spent the rest of the holiday snogging British lads whose ess Imcouldd understand!

People who are implying that a few hours on Duolingo would sort this out really haven’t thought this through.

It's rude to talk in a different language in front of someone when you could all speak the same one. It is excluding her. I finished with a boyfriend in my teens because he kept doing this with family and friends and I found it disrespectful.

@mumoftwoyoungkids

Exactly! Doesn’t sound like OP is interested in helping her either.

It takes 575-600 hours to become proficient in Italian. So yes, the OP's DP should "just" go and do that...

Or she could find a respectful partner who doesn't exclude her from conversations, that would take less time?

I would also be rethinking my relationship if my partner was excluding me (especially if I had actually told him it made me feel excluded). It's just rude and shows how little you respect her.

Our household is a trilingual one. I’m the only person who speaks all three languages (albeit a different dialect to DH). He speaks Arabic to our children, I speak English/Hebrew. My DH’s first language is a smaller, uncommon language and I don’t speak it nor have I tried. Despite his mum preferring to speak in that language, around me - even if he’s on the phone and I’m in the room - he speaks English to her unless she doesn’t understand. And then he teaches her. I’ve never asked, it’s just polite. My mum’s family speak a language my Dad doesn’t understand and I understand but can’t speak. They speak English at all times around us. It is incredibly rude to do otherwise, as it always feels exclusionary no matter how much someone it told it isn’t about them. I think this is a basic and important rule of all bilingual households, and one I’d strongly advise using to maintain your relationship. Just like when my DH and I do bedtime together, my son never picks a Hebrew book because he won’t understand. He just knows it’s not nice, and does that.

In terms of whether she should have learned Italian? Well, I never successfully managed to learn my Mum’s language despite her best efforts as a toddler. We were in the UK with no one else to help and she decided it was pointless as everyone in their country speaks English. Not part of some jingoistic belief, she was just practical about things. I won’t learn my DH’s mum’s language, nor will my DH learn Hebrew. We are all busy, they’re not worldwide spoken languages, we don’t have an interest (strangely) in languages, and we are always inclusive in our speaking choices. If your partner feels forced to learn (even if it’s because she feels excluded), she won’t enjoy it and will come to resent you. My DS decided he likes daddy’s Arabic more than mine, because it sounds friendlier - and I’d never dream of pushing my dialect (even though it’s a bit classier imo ) on him because he will just get irritated.

YANBU

And seriously, learning a language to easy conversational level, is really hard and takes a lot of time and commitment. It's not something she can do in a year. And the only reason to learn it seems to be so she can understand it when her partner and his mother CHOOSE to talk in that language?
The fiancee wasn't to know that she'd be stuck in lickdown with them both one day.

My FIL was Polish. My MIL never learned Polish because there was no reason to. When they visited the Polish relatives she wasn't worried because she knew the conversations would just be catch up and family politics related, and the relatives had no choice but to speak Polish. A couple of uncles did speak English, and only talked to FIL in Polish if she/we weren't around. Because they recognised that would be rude.

Lickdown?! Ha! Lockdown

You should not stop speaking Italian but rather find some inclusion to blend it a little, foe example say to your partner," Mum was just saying such and such, whatt do you think? Mixing it up a little english and Italian, sometimes saying something in Italian and repeating it in English. She should make the effort to learn Italian. It will be important for any bilingual babies

I think this is the most practical way forward, a mixture of Italian and English moving forward so everyone is included.
It is important your DP accepts the value of your language particularly if you are going to raise dc.
But it is hard to feel excluded because you don't understand the conversation and learning a language is hard.

It's quite racist apart from anything else. I sympathise with her as I grew up in a bilingual family and whenever relatives came to our house they would lapse into French at teh drop of a hat. My brothers and I subconsciously rejected our French heritage and I can say with shame but truth that of my millions of cousins my brothers and I are the only ones not bilingual.

Refusing to make the effort to learn French, though I personally found it quite easy to speak, is my responsibility, and so at family gatherings, when French is spoken, it is my own fault that I don't always understand and am not able to join in properly.

Your partner should really enrol in an Italian evening class or online class, and then rejoice in the advantage she has that she can practise as much as she likes at home.

I think you and your mum should speak in English when your partner is there. I can completely understand why she feels excluded and I would be unhappy if I was her.

I think you are being very rude. It must be hard enough staying with the in-laws without you choosing to speak in a language she doesn't understand. When it's just you and your mum in the room, speak Italian. But when the 3 of you are there you should include her by speaking the language you all understand.

I think you are being rude to talk in a a language that is not understood by 1 person out of 3 .....
there is nothing to stop you and your mum talking in italian when your partner is not with you .... your reasons are really weak you can maintain your cultural heritage and fluency in many ways but you are deliberatey excluding someone which is bullying behaviour

I work in a mixed nationality team. It is considered polite to always speak in a language that every in the room / Zoom speaks. Conversely it is considered extremely rude to do the opposite, i.e. what you are doing when you speak Italian when the non-Italian speaker is in the room.

Chat to your mum in Italian only when everyone physically present in the room speaks Italian.

MN at its finest. I’ve read threads where women have posted about their DH speaking in his home tongue and the responses were totally different to this!!

YABVU and rude OP. Talk to your mum in Italian when your DP is out of ear shit!

I think the 8 years are a bit less significant than they are being made out, because for the first few years it would have been reasonable for her to treat it as a new relationship. Why would you commit that kind of effort to someone who might break up with you in a few months or next year?

Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn
As they have been going through education together in a presumably demanding vocational course then the girlfriend probably didn't have the time or capacity to learn another language too. Unless of course the OP also taught himself another language in that time!

In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. So she was open to learning Italian - that was your opportunity. Did you try to teach her? Did you put any effort into breaking it down and sharing some simple language structures? Like most people, she probably needed some help to learn something new.

Acquiring another language in adulthood when you have other work and learning commitments is quite different to learning it as a child or even a young adult (the gap year/year abroad scenario).

• And seriously, learning a language to easy conversational level, is really hard and takes a lot of time and commitment. It's not something she can do in a year. And the only reason to learn it seems to be so she can understand it when her partner and his mother CHOOSE to talk in that language? The fiancee wasn't to know that she'd be stuck in lickdown with them both one day.*

They are getting married so the partner has this for a lifetime. If they have children, op will want to teach them Italian- will the partner ban op talking to the kids in Italian?
Nobody is saying that the partner needs to speak it but learning how to understand the gist of a conversation is much easier but requires of effort of learning some vocabulary,

Yes, it takes time to get good, but there's no reason why she couldn't learn a little and treat listening to her partner & mum conversing as a learning opportunity. I do think it's unreasonable to partner up with someone and not make some effort to learn a bit of their language and culture.

You are being rude to have conversations in Italian in front of her. Save this for when it’s just you and your mum.