AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

it's really rude to deliberately exclude her from conversations by speaking a language she doesn't know when you and your mother can both speak her language. it simply is rude, there are no two ways about that.

everyone talking about she will do if you have children - that is completely irrelevant to this situation so not sure why it's being brought up.

and yes it would have been ideal for her to learn some italian over the past few years (not easy to learn a language as an adult, to everyone saying why hasn't she just learned as though it's as easy as dutifully opening an app for ten minutes a day and in a year you're fluent 🙄) and stuck in lockdown in a stressful situation with people who refuse to help her learn isn't the best time to start tbh.

however her comment about being in britain now is completely not okay and personally i would say that is the bigger issue here. no matter how angry you are, you don't say things like that, it's completely unacceptable imo.

YADNBU.

ExMIL was raised in Italy, English is her second language. Her parents are now dead, she is an only child, so ExDP is the only one she now can now speak to in her mother tongue.

Our DC aren't fluent in Italian, but speak more than enough to talk to her in Italian or reply to her English, depending. DC are lazy teens now and risk losing the language if they don't start using it more often.

When I was with ExDP, I was more or less fluent in Italian due to them always speaking to each other in Italian. Its rusty these days, pre lockdown I saw ExMIL monthly for a coffee and cake which isn't the same as almost daily.

Another language is a fucking gift.

we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British.

This is a horrible and extremely ignorant attitude, unacceptable even if she was angry.

She sounds controlling. However, it I do think there is a balance, especially if everyone can speak one language but only 2/3 can speak another, and you're all shut in together. It can be really uncomfortable and feel awkward to not understand. So when you're all three talking together at dinner I would use English. If she's in the room but you're chatting to your mum, speak Italian then briefly tell DP "we were just talking about x" etc.

No offense, but your friend needs to get ver it.

Next time you ring her, in a loud voice say hi mum. I'm going to speak in English because MIL is here and she wants to be nosy and hear our conversation.

Yes, it takes time to get good, but there's no reason why she couldn't learn a little and treat listening to her partner & mum conversing as a learning opportunity. I do think it's unreasonable to partner up with someone and not make some effort to learn a bit of their language and culture.

Learning " a little" of a language does not mean that you can understand all the conversations so wouldn't make any difference to the partner feeling excluded. I certainly understand DH a lot of the time if he is speaking to my children but if a group of his family start talking in their language I am soon lost. As they will speak English I consider it very rude that they don't communicate in English when I'm there and have over the years voted with my feet and avoid having anything to do with them.

As they will speak English as they can speak English.

Absolutely NBU.
I live in Italy and when I'm with Brits I speak English. When I'm with my daughter I speak English. With my Italian husband I speak Italian (even if there's a Brit around)
It's what bilingual families do. Or they stop being bilingual. Sometimes we have both languages going on.
Only someone really insecure would see anything negative or insulting about it.

How will the poor snowflake cope if you have a dc?.
She should be making all efforts to learn Italian imo!!.
Or tell her to buggar off..
In English!

this. Now is a good time for her to start learning Italian, it's rude of her not to try.

Why can't she learn Italian? Especially with native speakers around her? I don't get people who choose to be with a foreign partner then moan about their language and want them to stop speaking it. So controlling and paranoid. Why don't they date 'English only?' & your partner wants to control your Mum into only speaking English too? Are you just going to accept that?

If you have a DC are you going to be banned from teaching him/her Italian too? I would find a person like this narrow minded and very off-putting. All a bit 'Brits abroad'. I don't speak DPs home language he doesn't speak mine so we communicate in English. I couldn't care less when he speaks his language to his mates & family, likewise he's the same with me. When I'm with family, speaking our language is automatic. If told to only speak English I'd forget more often than not. I'm speaking my mother tongue after all. Don't deny your heritage for anybody OP, no matter the excuses some will try to make for it. It's just not worth it.

With my Italian husband I speak Italian (even if there's a Brit around)

You may do it but if your DH speaks English, it doesn't mean it's not rude. Why would you not speak the language everyone can understand?

Honestly it’s rude if she’s in even room. Yes it would be good if she made an effort to practice. But it’s a pandemic and it’s extremely lonely to be in a room with people having a conversation you are automatically excluded from.

Sm's language is part of their culture/upbringing. Not even trying to learn a bit of a partner's language is a bit weird. I've spent about 30 hours the last month or so learning Spanish. No, you can't get fluent in a few months but you learn enough to not leave you feeling like a complete lemon next time you go over.

If you're speaking Italian to your mum all the time around your partner then it's just plain rude. If you slip into it occasionally it's fine. Surely you can find some sort of middle ground.

You've been together 8 years. The onus is on here to learn Italian if she cares so much.

Shes joined your family and is actively excluding herself by refusing to engage

@TheCanterburyWhales
With my Italian husband I speak Italian (even if there's a Brit around)

Even if it's just you, your husband and one other person who cannot speak Italian? Then you are as rude as the OP and her mother.

I think what she said about speaking English because you chose to move to England is a bit twat-ish but I agree with her that it's rude to speak a language others don't speak in front of them, when there is a choice to do otherwise. Can't you talk to your mum in Italian when you DH is not around? And in English when they are?

More context is really required here. Lots of people in their responses are drawing parallels with their own experience without really knowing what is actually happening here. There are nuances which really matter

Generally in social situations, the thing to do is use the common language, or accommodate those whose language skills are weakest with the bilinguals helping the conversation along

This however is a home situation, so I would from an understanding of why you are sharing a home , as PP mentioned, are you 'caring for' your mother or is she providing a home for you?

If she is providing the home (esp if she is paying the bills) a bit more of her language would be forgiven.

If you are both caring for her then English anytime the English speaker is present would be reasonable.

More effort would be made at more formal situations, so when eating meals use the common language. However, when cooking, if there were the two of you together I would almost expect that you would be using at least the Italian words.

If the only-English speaking person has cooked then all cooking and eating and clearing up should be in English.

In my experience of growing up in an English speaking household in a multi lingual community, these things usually organise themselves naturally.

When they go wrong, the language mismatch is usually revealing something else that is broken about the relationships.

For example, the families expecting their grandchildren to speak their language.

Then, it's also worth considering that, once you get beyond social chit chat, very few people are completely language neutral. See PP about who tells her children off in their native language. There are some things you really want to talk to your mother about using the language that is familiar to you from childhood.

This is the main reason I would always encourage people to try to learn another language, so that they really get the overhead and frustration of using another language, at different levels of fluency.

I'm afraid I would find it difficult to listen to someone playing the 'we are in England now' card precisely because of the 'cringe'. There are plenty of English only speaking people around the world who have no intention of learning any other languages.

This might be reasonable as a tourist/customer but few people trying to sell or influence find that helpful.

As for learning, no one can teach anyone anything that they are not motivated to learn. How much more motivation does anyone need, than to be in a relationship with someone who has cultural links to another language. How can you understand that aspect of their partner?

So, OP, happy to provide an analysis once we gave the important background details.

After decades of speaking a certain language with someone, it takes a real effort to remember to speak another language with them. Not to just be able to say the first thing that comes into your head, without thinking - always having to stop yourself and change it to something else. You do get used to it, but it does take a bit of patience from the third person if you accidentally slip back into the usual language without realising.

Like others have said, if you are just talking to your mum and your dp would not normally be part of the conversation whatever the language, then it's not rude, but you do have to pay attention to the social niceties in other situations.

in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British
This, however, suggests that your dp is not well suited to having an international partner, and would be better off with a similarly minded local. "Said in anger" = said what she's really been thinking all along.

If you havnt been in this situation then you don't know how irritating and annoying it is to feel constantly excluded and does make you a bit irrationally paranoid

It's what bilingual families do.
No two bilingual families are alike, Whales!

Your partner is being very unreasonable. DH both have different mother tongues. I never speak english with my family and he rarely speaks english with his. We both dont mind. I do sometimes feel left out of conversations, but so does my partner and we try our best to translate for each other.
It just wouldnt feel natural to speak english with our families, especially for me, because my parents arent really fluent in it. It would be awkward and weird.
We also both speak our first language with our kids. They are 4 and 6 and both are fluent in 3 languages. It can be annoying of course, but it is also a gift to have different languages, cultures etc. to learn.

I am on the fence about this one.
Dh is Spanish and when I first started dating him, he would speak Spanish to his parents.
However, unlike OP’s partner’s mother, my mother in law couldn’t speak English.
Dh would attempt to translate certain things.
I eventually learned how to speak Spanish and I am pretty fluent.
I personally think it’s rude to spend a lot of time speaking another language in the presence of someone who doesn’t understand , particularly as we are in lockdown and therefore there is limited interaction with others.
However, OP’s partner has eight years to learn Italian . I just get the impression that OP’s partner is one of those who believe that there is little need to learn another language as everyone should speak English.
I find that many English people think like this
which is why many British people are unable to speak another language.

Your DP is showing a lot of red flags. When you have kids she will probably stop them from learning Italian too so she can control the flow of conversation. Chuck her out.

I understand her point if the 3 of you are sitting together and she cannot follow the conversation, it’s a bit unfair. Surely she could spend the lockdown time to learn the language?