AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

NRTFT but if I was in a long term relationship that spoke in a second language, as did most of their family I would want to learn that language.
If you'd only been together a few months, I'd say it was a little rude but after 8 years, why isn't she making an effort?

I have 2 best friends that aren't English and have made efforts to learn the basics of their languages.

@BillieEilish
When I had a baby, I loved that my partner spoke a different language to her and actively championed it, so she is no fully bilingual. But now she is 12, I expect, when I have cooked a family meal, to speak in the language common/easiest to all of us.

And of course the "common language" is YOUR language, because you couldn't be bothered to learn?
Becoming fluent is not a one-off achievement. If you want your daughter to stay fluent, she needs to use the language.

@MaybeDoctor doing a class once a week is a slow way to learn compared to what you could learn immersed in the language (stuck in a flat with two native speakers). I learned my languages living in the countries working and living with native speakers and got from zero to A level in a year.. However it sounds like in this case the partner just isn’t interested in learning, which is up to them.

I think she's right. 3 people in a room and 2 of them deliberately choose to speak a language that excludes the third when they can speak English perfectly well. It is rude.
I agree with this, and l don't get the double standards, the DP is rude, controlling, lazy, RED FLAG, for wanting to communicate in a language she understands and is herfirst and which they all speak. Yet OP and her DM are wonderful and great for wanting to do the same- however this excludes the DP. Although if the actual words of 'dont ever speak Italian again' actually did come out of the DP, then that is controlling.

If she started at the beginning of lockdown, she'd be able to follow a basic conversation by now - as I'm pretty sure OP and mum would happily speak clearly and slowly

The first sentence is true, but I wouldn't want to guarantee the second

I speak fairly fluent French, but as soon as I do this over there I very often get a blizzard of rapid-fire French in return, presumably on the assumption I'll get it all. I've never done it of course, but sometimes I want to say "hang on I'm doing my best here - at least help me out"

What an array of responses. English is not my mother tongue, my DH is English and my children are bilingual. My grandchildren too. Is it rude that you speak in Italian to your mother in front of your wife? No. You are not BU.

My father speaks very little English, he is 84 and I'm going to speak to him in his language. My DH understands German and we all manage to include him in the conversation. I have never forced him to learn nor would I. We have been married for over 30 years. My father and he get on like a house on fire. My DH is of the mind that our children have benefitted hugely from being bilingual.

But, OP, you could teach your wife some basic Italian. I did with my DH. We watched films with subtitles and with our children, he was able to read the German books to them.

There are so many benefits here that are being missed for your wife. It might be up to you to take the lead and ensure she overcomes the insecurities she feels. This can be done.

If you've been together 8 years, and your partner doesn't even have enough grasp of your "other" language to get a general sense of conversation (no one is asking them to direct a light opera) then they never will and it's as simple as that. Things are much much deeper than the simple AIBU in this specific instance.

Learning a language takes some work, but that is offset by the fact that we have to use it every single moment of every single day if we want to interact with others. When I used to work with some guys that spoke "indian" (a right old mish mash of Hindi, Gujerati, Punjabi and Bengali) I picked up enough to say "Hello", "goodbye", "how are you (plus response)" and count "1-20" in a week. (I probably learned more, but they're what stuck). So if I had 8 years I'm sure I could at least pick out enough to "get the jist" so to speak.

Coming from a half-Italian heritage, I mixed with a lot of kids who also had one Italian parent. And it was quite sad that some of them came from houses where the (English) parent (usually Father ?) forbade the speaking of Italian - much like the English forbade the speaking of Welsh. Imagine getting a clout from your Dad for speaking Italian ?

Obviously, I can't imagine that happening these days (carefully reads OPs post). No, no one would be that horrid would they ?

Massively unreasonable tbh. It's no different than if you and mum were constantly whispering in front of your dp.

I once lived with a Spaniard and when her cousin came to stay they spoke in non-stop rapid Spanish at all times, so I do understand that left-out feeling.

However - if my flatmate had been my partner, I would have made the effort to learn a bit of Spanish. So I think your partner is being unreasonable here (and she should learn Italian - I'm learning it now and it's the most gorgeous and satisfying language).

I'm on the fence. DH is bilingual and has always spoken to my now adult DC in his language which I don't mind at all as it has meant they are bilingual and I can understand most of what he is saying anyway. However, I have been very pissed off in the past when visiting his family that they don't bother to speak English in my presence and I find them hard to understand so I feel very excluded. I haven't seen them for years now for that reason. I think there needs to be a compromise.

Your partner is being ridiculous.

My DH and his family aren't English and when together my FIL often talks to my DH in his mother tongue. It's not an issue for me at all, and if anything I enjoy listening to it because it helps me learn the language, and it helps my DD learn too, something which is important to both me and my DH as it forms a part of her heritage.

If your partner is that insecure about it, she could make the effort to learn the language. And as PP have already commented, what happens if you have children? Will objections be made if you talk to your children in a different language? Food for thought for you anyway.

@tildaMa I live in my DH's country, my DD's country and I speak and understand the language, thanks.

My DD it 100% bilingual, she speaks is every day at school and with her Dad. In daily life.

Her Dad is 100% bilingual. My English is my strongest language and it is reasonable that we speak this when I have cooked dinner. We all have this language in common.

None of us needs to think about it. So we are polite. English is in fact my DD's 'mother tongue'

Thanks.

The first sentence is true, but I wouldn't want to guarantee the second

If people are unaware you're a learner or not interested in acommodating you, maybe. But that's not the case here.

I've never done it of course, but sometimes I want to say "hang on I'm doing my best here - at least help me out"

Then stop expecting people to guess you're not fluent and just. Say. It.
If you ask, most people are happy to repeat and slow down.

I think in general it's a bit rude to speak with someone in a language another person in the group doesn't understand.

Your partner has had eight years to learn Italian. She's chosen not to do that which is her perogative. But you're guests in your mother's home. Is she really expecting your mother to not speak Italian to any great extent until such time as the two of you can leave and your partner won't be there to hear it? I think that's pretty unreasonable.

As for her comment that you're in England now and should speak English. Well, she'd not be my partner for much longer.

Why don't you teach your DP Italian or they start learning? Being immersed in it they will learn it quickly, if they want to.

So she is having to live with your mum.
Out of her comfort zone.
Missing her own home.
And.... on top of that you make her feel isolated in that place she does not even call home.
WOW!
Please understand it from her point of view.
What if you were at her mums and they spoke a totally different language and excluded you????
I think it's rude.
Yes she could learn it but you both speak English and you are in England (I assume), she does not speak Italian.
Please include her. It's really unfair and must feel very lonely for her.
It's like a divide. You and your DM have your own thing going on and she feels left out.
I'd be unhappy about it too!

Why don't you teach your DP Italian or they start learning? Being immersed in it they will learn it quickly, if they want to.

Maybe they don't. It's a lot of effort for some people.

@mrpumblechook
Maybe they don't. It's a lot of effort for some people.

Ah, yes. I find that just thinking about learning a different language seems to be a lot of effort for many native English speakers.

When there’s only three of you I think it’s really rude to talk in a language one of you doesn’t understand. Regardless of all your justifications.

My grandmother used to be rude about my mum in Greek, right in front of her. Your partner doesn’t know that you’re not doing this, regardless of you saying you don’t.

This is obviously completely heightened because you’re living with your mum at the moment. I don’t agree with what your partner said, but it’s rude to exclude her.

Absolutely irrelevant that other people’s parents don’t speak much English. Also irrelevant ‘what about when they have kids’.

I'd find this very rude if I were your DP. You're excluding her even though you and your DM both speak English!

Encourage her to acquire a bit of Italian vocabulary. Just enough to follow the gist of your domestic conversations with your Mum.

How about , your mother starts teaching her a little Italian? I don't mean book lessons; just everyday stuff about domestic life, folding the washing and naming the garments; sharing cooking and naming ingredients, tools, verbs like peel, chop fry etc. Washing up and learning the names of utensils. Or could you get some Italian DVD's with English subtitles to all watch together?

I've never done it of course, but sometimes I want to say "hang on I'm doing my best here - at least help me out"

Sometimes you have to say exactly that, @Puzzledandpissedoff. Don't be afraid to ask people to slow down. If they are speaking back to you in rapid French rather than switching to English then that probably means they think your French is good, which is great.

I've lived in France for a few years now and I'm completely bilingual but sometimes when I'm particularly tired and someone I work with is speaking to me very fast I'll interrupt them and ask them to slow down.

I think it’s rude to speak a different language in front of someone who doesn’t understand, sorry. My best friend’s family speak Spanish at home but they make a point of not doing so when her husband or sister in law are staying as it excludes them from joining in the conversation.

Why don't you teach your DP Italian or they start learning? Being immersed in it they will learn it quickly, if they want to.

A lot of people have missed the fact the OP has been with their DP for 8 years. Not 8 weeks or even 8 months. The only way it's possible to be completely out of your depth with a language your partner speaks with family over 8 years is to have pretty much decided on day one or two that "I am not even going to try". Maybe they could have disguised it or hidden a bit longer, but it's in the clear now.

My dh is Dutch.
When we are in Holland, we only speak Dutch, all of us.
When we were first married we went and live din Holland specifically so that I coudl do a crash course in Dutch and learn the language.

I read a few books abotu bilingual families and they emphasised how difficult it is to continue if your partner doesn't speak your language. So I learnt.

She needs to learn.
That is the bottom line.

Yes, it is hard to be in a room where you are the only one who doesn't understand. To be honest that comes with the territory when you are involved with someone who is bilingual.

Your Italianess and Italian language are part of who you are. She needs to make an effort to learn. It is pretty easy with apps like duplingo