Advice please on neighbour

[Sidalee7]

Live in a cul de sac with mostly semi detached houses. We live next door but one to a mum and her daughter who is 6. Since lockdown started the daughter is at the neighbour in between’s house shouting/screaming at the neighbour constantly. Apparently the neighbour told her off for something at the start of lockdown and the child now screams “I hate you” and “you are stupid/a poo/a witch ect ect” ALL THE TIME. It’s making being in our garden a nightmare.
Yesterday I saw the mum outside their garage and the daughter was shouting abuse into the neighbors letter box.
I said (calmly and in a low tone) : please can you stop her doing that, it’s horrible. She screamed at me YOU are horrible (never had a problem with her, would always smile and say hello) My daughter has SPECIAL NEEDS she is autistic it’s not her fault.
I still feel shaking and horrible from the confrontation. I hate the thought that she thinks I’m not understanding of her daughters autism. But surely she can try to stop her daughter rather than letting her and not telling her to stop?

^@Londonsuffolkmummy
Deliberately targeting someone to harass them is NOT a meltdown, it’s nasty bullying and for the mother not to be stopping it is disgusting.
An adult to say she started it is pathetic.
I’d call Social Services^

Well said @JKScot4

Op I hope this gets sorted today.

I feel that if the mother was asking the girl to stop/apologetic/attempting to remove her from the situation then this would be a different scenario.

Let's hope the police can put the right support in place and that it stops happening.

Londonsuffolkmummy
I do know what it’s like trying to calm a meltdown unfortunately, let’s be honest tho this isn’t a meltdown it’s inexcusable behaviour encouraged as not stopped by the mum
Nothing is worse as a parent of a child with SN to hear than people excusing rude behaviour as unavoidable, my son wouldn’t be given the chance & told that the way he was being was unacceptable even if he didn’t fully understand
Tbh his twin sisters are 5 & half and wouldn’t be near a neighbours door because at the age they they should still be close by

Completely unacceptable and I say that as a parent of two children with autism. I know that at times it can be really difficult to modify behaviours but not even trying means you are letting your child down. I remember when my own ds at about six took a dislike to one of his teachers and would have to shout about him having a bald head every time he saw him. For ds, banning him from doing something never worked so I instilled the rule that he could talk about the teacher's bald head to me but only in a quiet voice. He did that for a while and then because the shock factor had gone because nobody heard him he eventually stopped.
It might not be so easy as to say "stop that!" but the mother should be trying strategies and allowing her dd to persist means it's something that will be harder to break

As someone with autism, if the child is high functioning enough to be speaking and comprehending language, she's also high functioning enough to know better

This simply isn't true. I have a child with a verbal ability on the 91st century, all other cognitive abilities are between 3rd and 12th centile.

Do you know what it’s like trying to calm an autistic child having a meltdown

A meltdown is a total loss of control. Continually shouting abuse is not a meltdown by its definition.

*century = centile

I would tell the mother that if the behaviour didn't stop I would be calling the police
Support your elderly neighbour as much as you can OP, it must be awful for her

I agree that while you can be tolerant if the mother was clearly trying to control her dd she is apparently doing nothing. So I would be both logging it with the police but contacting social services. Has the mother got to a stage where she can't cope and is ignoring it?

Police for sure, autistic or not this is a systematic abuse of a vulnerable person. Having special needs does not excuse someone from this sort of behaviour. At the very very least a police visit may make the mother attempt to put a stop to it in future. WRT to if you or the neighbour should call the police, if you saw someone physically attacking your neighbour you won't stand back and say 'well they should call shouldn't they', no you would call for them wouldn't you.

My son has additional needs (unsure what yet) sure he ignores me running around in circles and over the sofa, but if he tried to yell abuse through a letterbox? I'd pick him up and take him inside to cool down

OP should check with the elderly neighbour first to see if she actually wants to involve the police because if she doesn't want them involved then she likely isn't going to thank the OP for calling them. OP posted last night she's going to speak to the elderly neighbour about escalating it to the authorities.

Presumably the neighbour is able to contact help for herself though seeing as she isn't in immediate danger of being harmed?

KKSlider

You wrote this earlier. The neighbour is being harmed. She is being subjected to a campaign of harassment. She is elderly and living alone and she is having abuse screamed through her letterbox. This is so loud, the OP can hear it. The child's mother is not only failing to prevent her child from doing this, she is encouraging and justifying it. She shouted abuse at the OP and is refusing to do anything to prevent her child abusing a vulnerable old lady. It's unacceptable behaviour. There is no excuse for it.

@billybagpuss I just felt like I made it worse, the mum’s weird reaction of “she started it” , she obviously feels that we are horrible people.
I ended up saying “she’s a child and you need to help her behave” or something inept like that.
I think I realised that the mum will do FA about it and is actually encouraging the daughter in a weird way.
But the neighbour did text to say she heard it all and was grateful that I was sticking up for her.

Remember that nearly every victim of bullying is able to contact help. Physically. Doesn't mean we leave them to it and just wave it off with "if they wanted help, they would ask for it"🤷🏻

@BovaryX I was not excusing it. The rest of my post that you've quoted said: OP doesn't know if the neighbour wants the police or council involved or if she wants to ignore it and hope it stops which is why I said the neighbour should contact them if she wants to.

OP then said:

I have spoken to the neighbour via text tonight and she said she is at her wits end. I might suggest that we both log the incidents and then report.

To which I replied: That would probably be the best course of action, I wouldn't report it unless your neighbour wants you to. It sounds like the mum could probably do with some support and hopefully she will get some as a result.

I have also stated in other posts that the behaviour is not acceptable so please do tell me where ove excused it?

@Sidalee7 that's great, OP. It really had to be such a relief for you neighbour to know there is someone who cares. Don't back off, help her. You are doing the right thing

@Sidalee7

OP, you are clearly concerned about this because as you have highlighted, this is a campaign of abuse and harassment and the target is an elderly woman living alone. The child's mother is enabling and justifying this behaviour, which is completely unacceptable. Your poor neighbour must be feeling afraid, intimidated and bullied. Understandably so. It's really kind of you to make contact with her, I would encourage you to offer her support. I also encourage you to escalate this anti social behaviour to the relevant authorities. Imagine if the situation was reversed and the elderly neighbour was screaming abuse into the child's letterbox? This deliberate campaign of harassment must be stopped. The poor old lady must be so distressed by it.

@KKSlider

You said the elderly neighbour was not being harmed. It's right there in your quote. She is being harmed and it is very odd to deny it.

This has been said quite a few times, but another parent of an asd child here, and, as difficult as it is, I would never let this happen, ever. It is also definitely is not a meltdown.

FFS report it. If it was your grandmother would you report it?

I said not in immediate danger of being harmed. Immediate danger would be an imminent threat in which case it would a matter of dialing 999 regardless of whether the elderly neighbour wants to involve the police or not. For the issues that are actually occurring, it isn't an emergency so contacting the authorities should be instigated by the elderly neighbour, with the support of the OP, if that is what the neighbour wants to do.

For the issues that are actually occurring

The issue that is actually occurring is the prolonged harassment of a vulnerable old lady living alone. This harassment is so loud, the OP can hear it. When the OP politely asked the child to stop screaming abuse through her neighbour's letterbox, the mother started shouting abuse at the OP. This is anti social behaviour, it is being justified and encouraged by the mother. And it most definitely is causing harm to a vulnerable old lady.

This sort of excusing is the reason that there are so many people who think Autism = Naughty.

Nothing like a meltdown, and needs to be stopped, even if stopping does lead to a meltdown ,which can be dealt with in her own home and not through an elderly lady's letterbox.

I'm glad you said something.