Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:
Greenlorry · 09/05/2020 07:24

Some have made a point about OP and not needing the money maybe so. But the steaks highlight that even though her sister lives rent free they could be further issues. I think the sister should pay something at least!
How many of us could live free long term with that a family member?
As an adult you have to learn money management, what ever financial situation is.

Ineedabreak19 · 09/05/2020 07:27

Also if I lived rent free at someone else's expense, I wouldn't begeudge them £35 steak. I'd be sending them a bloody Fortnum & Mason's hamper as a token of my gratitude. You are saving them £1500 pcm rent & they have the cheek to ask for £35 back for the steaks. How are you OK with that level of entitlement and ingratitude? Your dh isn't the unreasonable one here.

Jokie · 09/05/2020 07:27

OP: if someone came into your office with this predicament, what would your advice be to them?

HannaYeah · 09/05/2020 07:54

Given your financial situation, I would let your sister know that she could still stay for free as long as she needs herself, but that once she invited another adult who has the means to pay you all should have discussed the arrangement.

Then also let your mother know you’re happy to help your sister but it doesn’t feel right to also subsidize her boyfriend.

squiglet111 · 09/05/2020 07:56

Hi op.

I am in two minds about this.

On the one hand, 8 months is a long time living rent free so it is about time you ask for a contribution.

But from reading your posts that £1000 wouldn't make a difference to you does put me in two minds. For the years your sister has lived at your house as a single mother she must have struggled paying bills etc alone. Now her partner has moved in it must have taken the burden off her and allowed her to live a better life style (have you discussed this?). Even though £1000 is cheap for the property, it's still a lot especially if your sister feels she should pay bulk amount as she has two kids there.

Have you asked what their long term plans are? Maybe they are saving money for a deposit so they can move out?

They should have spoken to you about living rent free a long time ago. But I would have a discussion before asking for £1000 a month. Would you feel differently if they were saving to buy? Etc etc?

But they should still pay something and the fact that they ask for the price of steaks when you are doing them a massive favour would sting. It is cheeky for them to think they can continue to like rent free. but the wording when your sister moved in maybe made her think you were giving her that property for life.

Sauron · 09/05/2020 07:56

One thing I am interested in is if your sister has shown you she appreciates the house. Not necessarily with money but has there been any token to show she is grateful for how you’ve supported her.

Dealing with this is a huge dilemma. It sounds like if it was just you, you’d let it go but it’s also your husband’s property as well.

squiglet111 · 09/05/2020 07:56

I should say 8 month since he moved in...

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 07:59

Guys thanks for advice - will be speaking to sister this afternoon.

I did speak to my mother - and she was ok. Didn’t see any issue with us charging them rent - and actually they agreed they should be. She did mention that perhaps we could rent them another property that’s nearer both myself and my parents when the tenancy ends (it ends in September) but the rent would be far in excess of 3k. But that’s a another matter.

OP posts:
squiglet111 · 09/05/2020 08:00

Are you in a position to sell your sister the house?

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 08:00

To have everything drawn up contractually - like I said I know this is our bread and butter and I know we aren’t doing things correctly.

OP posts:
Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 08:02

We don’t want to sell.

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 09/05/2020 08:06

Perhaps you could sell the property to them, prevents this dragging on forever and more disputes in the future

Shouldershrugger · 09/05/2020 08:07

I think you have been and are a very good sister. As uncomfortable it is, you need to support your dh or he will become respectful towards you too. But it seems as tho you are anyhow. It doesnt matter if you need the money or not, its the principle. Good luck with your sister. If she has love and respect for you and your dh, she'll understand. But if she becomes vocal, try and understand that it may be a shock and allow her time to process. But. Don't be guilted into reversing your request.

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 08:09

Selling isn’t an option. It’s a cross rail commuters town that’s 17 minutes direct into central London.

Our properties are for retirement and our children’s future. We have 4 kids - so a lot of future expenses.

OP posts:
anxiouswaiting · 09/05/2020 08:21

Your mum reacted better than you expected, hope your sister is the same OP

shootmenow2020 · 09/05/2020 08:21

I'm sure you're aware she would have squatters rights if you guys don't sort this out eventually?

Greenlorry · 09/05/2020 08:23

I can understand OP not wanting a contract. It’s a bit extreme.

wowfudge · 09/05/2020 08:24

How would she have squatters rights? Not sure they exist anymore. Definitely formalise the arrangement as a tenancy can be created without having a written contract. Presumably the sister is paying council tax and utility bills?

AJPTaylor · 09/05/2020 08:27

Just throwing this out there.
Are you sure he knows that your sister is living rent free? He may well be paying his way to live at your sisters and she is using it to supplement her part time wage.

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 08:31

To the poster who said she would have squatters rights - no she wouldn’t. As she didn’t occupy the property without our permission. Look what I’m doing is what I advise people against doing all the time. I’ve been clear I’m not doing things the correct way.

OP posts:
Lionsleepstonight · 09/05/2020 08:40

What about leaving it for now vut offering your sister a move to the nearer house at a reduced rent of 1.5k but it would need a tenancy agreement or 1k rent on current one. This way it's legally drawn up and at worst you are 1.5k down, which you are today.

Patch23042 · 09/05/2020 08:45

Has she no self-respect? I’d never freeload from a family member.

You’re still doing her a huge favour by offering her and her boyfriend a property at 60% of market rent, so don’t lose sight of that fact if she kicks up a fuss. Which she might do, if she’s been pocketing rent from the boyfriend.

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 08:49

I want to add she has gone through a really rough time. Her ex husband made money - but he was always looking for the next double my money scheme rather than playing a safe bet - and as most of us know double your money schemes rarely end well.

We offered to pay her children’s school fees (they go to the same school as ours) but her ex husband refused. I said it was nothing to do with him - but anyway she refused. So she isn’t a freeloader.

OP posts:
Saltycinnamon · 09/05/2020 08:56

As a couple of others have said I’d want to know what her long term plan is - without being too intrusive into her financial affairs. Could they pay rent that you then return as a deposit later for them if they decide to buy later? You don’t want to force a joint finances /buying together conversation with her boyfriend if she’s not ready for that yet but he should be contributing.

Ineedabreak19 · 09/05/2020 08:59

I think Lionsleepstonight has the best solution to your predicament here.