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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:
Rosebel · 09/05/2020 03:59

I think you and your husband are partly to blame for this. She discussed her partner moving in and you assumed that she would pay rent. When she didn't mention it neither did you. Why didn't you say something at the time?
Yes you have been generous but your sister isn't a mind reader. Perhaps when you didn't mention rent she thought it was fine to carry on. Of course it's absolutely your right to charge her rent but don't think you can put all the blame I'm her.
Without a tenancy agreement you will be screwed if she doesn't pay or decided to move out with no notice or it will cause rows about who is responsible for what. However your choice.

Rosebel · 09/05/2020 04:00

Put all the blame on her that should be.

sobeyondthehills · 09/05/2020 04:15

On the flip of the coin here, if the boyfriend leaves and she needs to claim Housing benefit for whatever reason, if you suddenly knock up a tenancy agreement as soon as they ask for it, she isn't going to get it, renting from a relative and trying to claim housing benefit is difficult enough, but you could be screwing her in the future.

Although from what you have said, if that happens, I assume she will start living rent free again

TeaForTara · 09/05/2020 04:41

Apart from anything else, if her DC are now 12 and 14, she could get a full time job for considerably more money. Given the amount you quote for rents, it sounds like a reasonably affluent part of the country.

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/05/2020 04:57

I’m with your dh 100% have had people take the piss out of us, for less money. We had entertained them and spent thousands on them and they offered up £1 for something rather than paying for the whole thing. This was “friends” rather thank family. It was the straw, that broke the camels back.

I was going to say speak to a lawyer specialising in property. However, as a property solicitor, you should know your sister (and possibly her partner) may have a very real claim on the property in the future if you continue to allow her to live there Rent free with no tenancy agreement. Cox v Jones was cited above.

Would losing the entire flat make a difference to your lives? That of your children?

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/05/2020 04:59

Oh god so many typos!

violetbunny · 09/05/2020 05:02

Hold on, what is your sister's actual financial situation here? Just because her DP earns well doesn't mean they have joint finances?

Bakedbrie · 09/05/2020 05:17

I think HE ought to be paying some rent, not her. 8 months is not a lengthy relationship for them to have pooled any resources as a couple - their finances are probably separate and he will be aware of her lower income. If he’s the upstanding guy that you portray in your opening OP, I’m sure he will open up his wallet and pay the going rate or a sum to cover his portion of costs - and ALL property does cost - council tax etc.

Bakedbrie · 09/05/2020 05:25

I can understand why this was probably not dealt with when he initially moved in - their relationship was new and for all you know he might well have offered rent to your Dsis who knocked it back. Time to deal with it now and ask HIM for rent. Her income is still quite low and she’s not won the lottery.

MountainPeakGeek · 09/05/2020 05:29

I think a previous poster has hit on a very good point. £1000 a month might well be affordable on their joint income, but what sort of financial position would your sister and kids be in if he (her partner) expected her to split the rent 50/50 and she's only on £16k?

trellishead · 09/05/2020 05:31

Wow. You've saved them an awful lot of money. Enough for a small deposit. Good luck and hope they rectify this situation with you immediately.

dontgobaconmyheart · 09/05/2020 05:34

Sorry OP but there is no way on god's earth I'd take the piss out of a member of my own family in the way your sister does you. If I were her I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of the fact I'd moved my partner in to ride the gravy train without discussing that clearly it was was timely and appropriate that rent is paid now there is no reason why it can't be. Unless she is in some way incapable of paying rent how is it helpful to her to coddle her in life like this. She is employed so perfectly capable of contributing rent for her own self esteem and independence.

Him asking for the money for the steaks is beyond a joke and reflects very poorly. If my DP had done this I would be so ashamed of him and reconsider our set up.

If you don't need the money and fantastically wealthy why not charge him/them a rent and then keep the money aside for your sister for when this relationship inevitably breaks up. Most probably when he realises it doesn't come with free rent and board courtesy of you and your poor DP who's acquired dependents who are actually fully functioning adults taking every advantage.

She can be related to you, be your best friend, and still be so used to being looked after courtesy of your endless goodwill that she has lost all sight of what is a piss take or that it's not actually normal to have handouts like this. She's got the equivalent of a lottery win for some people here, one of the biggest advantages in life going when a lot of people struggle to pay rent on grimy flats and doesn't even seem to realise it. Worrying. I would expect an apology and an offer of rent from her DP and her or it says a lot, whether you need the money is irrelevant.

Ullupullu · 09/05/2020 05:40

Interesting point by @Ernieshere above - you don't know she isn't charging rent to her DP!

Talk to Her.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 09/05/2020 05:49

I can't stress the importance of nailing down the terms at the beginning, in writing, and readdressing then at regular intervals (day 6 months). Your DH was a fool to say it's hers rent free as long as she needs it. What if she never moves out! I don't think I'd be in a rush to move out of a rent-free property.

Rayn · 09/05/2020 06:03

Has your sister acknowledged or mentioned anything about the house and living rent free or has it never been talked about in the three years?

I think honesty is best. Just tell her how you feel, and how your husband feels. Unfortunately, they have just presumed that they can live there rent free together.

Time for a hard conversation. I would maybe drop hints about have they thought about if they want to buy a house now they have been together a while etc

heylittlehenwhenwhenwhen · 09/05/2020 06:46

Get an extra copy of your credit/debit cards and let her have that too - make sure she shares the PIN with her partner. After all, it's family and it would be a shame if they had to actually pay for anything themselves jsut like everyone else does.

Check if they need a car too.

FFS.

Ineedabreak19 · 09/05/2020 06:54

Give them 3 months notice and say you'll be charging rent at £xxx pcm as your financial circumstances have changed. In the middle of a pandemic lots of people's finances have changed so it's not an unreasonable scenario. They are then welcome to stay on at paying x amount or they can find a more suitable home. Keep it factual, straightforward and unemotional and don't let your dh talk as he'll blow it.

returnofthecat · 09/05/2020 06:54

If an extra £1k every month would make no difference to your lives, you must be very very wealthy, in which case, I can understand why your sister hasn't offered to pay you rent. As you say, it makes no difference to you, but it's a huge deal for her. I can also see why your mother would disapprove of you charging her rent - you can afford to help out, and family helps family.

I understand why the steaks were the straw that broke your husband's back but if you don't need £1k, you don't need £30.

Is the real issue here that you and your husband don't see your sister's partner as family? There's a lot I would do for family without resentment, but it would be a different case for people I didn't see as family.

Rather than taking advantage of you and your husband, do you think the partner is taking advantage of your sister by not splitting rent money with her? If you were both prepared to give her a home rent-free in the first place, you clearly both feel very protective of her.

It really feels like there's a principle at stake here, but your husband hasn't articulated what principle that is. I think it's worth the two of you talking that out before you have the conversation with your sister.

Oh, and if you do end up charging rent, get a tenancy agreement in place. Legally it's something you need to do, even if you don't see yourselves as proper landlords.

Ineedabreak19 · 09/05/2020 07:01

The issue with letting your sister stay on rent free is that her partner will stay with her for the free meal ticket. If he is a keeper then he shouldn't have a problem renting a house together. I suspect he'll leave once he realises that he has to pay rent in which case he's done your sister a favour.

FiddlefigOnTheRoof · 09/05/2020 07:05

I totally understand about the steak. It’s not unrelated. It’s about gratitude and appreciation of the value of the favour.

MyOtherProfile · 09/05/2020 07:10

I think you need a rent agreement. What if something happens to your sister and her do carries on living there for ever at reduced rate, and then moves a new partner in? What if something goes wrong with the house and repairs are needed?

RoisinD · 09/05/2020 07:12

Your husband has been very generous and accommodating. Stop putting your sister, her boyfriend and your mother before him or you may have more to think about than the rent.

OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe · 09/05/2020 07:16

Think of it this way. Say you had a shop, would you let your sister & her family come in every month & take £1500 worth of stock?
The answer is no, of course you wouldn’t.

R2519 · 09/05/2020 07:18

Did you speak to your mother about it OP?

SunshineCake · 09/05/2020 07:21

I don't know what the OP wanted out of this thread as she isn't listening. Unless she all just wanted us to say yes, the steak money was out of order. If it I okay for his sister in law to live rent free then is it different for the bloke as they aren't married ?

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