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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:

CHIRIBAYA · 09/05/2020 13:08

This is a very difficult one for you, caught between your sister and your husband and trying to please both. Are you able to talk this over with your sister?? This is the key here. Getting the message across that paying reduced rent is still being supportive. See what she says. I know other posters here have said you are being unreasonable and you are but money can cause so many problems in families, even close ones and if she perceives that you are 'loaded', your request might not got down too well. Sounds like you are about to find out how good your relationship is. Best of luck.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/05/2020 13:28

My husband is a self made property man and I’m a solicitor with 19 years experience specialising in property, contract and civil disputes

If this is the case, it's a bit odd that you don't see the wisdom of a tenancy agreement - also that you didn't ask for rent when the partner moved in instead of "assuming" some would arrive, and that you feel you need your mum's okay for these decisions

Good luck with it all though - you'll probably need it

Nattyjackie · 09/05/2020 13:35

Absolutely if it doesn’t work out with the guy - it’s hers rent free for as long as she needs it. If that’s life so be it.

But what about when you need it to subsidise your children's future as you are planning. Surely this is not a realistic long term plan?

MrsRagnarLothbrok · 09/05/2020 13:40

the houses you and your husband own are your income, none of us mind helping our family out in the short term while they get back on their feet but when they are back on their feet it is reasonable to expect that they start to support themselves

BackseatCookers · 09/05/2020 13:46

Can I ask if you have children - if so please don’t tell them that women can’t work full time and have a family. Cooking, cleaning and shopping shouldn’t get in the way of your daughters or nieces career ambitions. And your sons or nephews shouldn’t expect the women in their lives to sacrifice their careers for this.

This.

I know you've since said it's you mean no disrespect to full time working parents and I believe that but you said that you understand some people "have" to work full time.

I hope young women (and men) know that it's ok to want to work full time if you love your job and it works for your family, it doesn't have to be something you only do because you're up against it financially and have no choice.

Inspiralcarpetry · 09/05/2020 13:48

My sister would do this. She'd also be really shocked if she was called out on her stinginess/cheekiness. She's like a labrador, romping through life, carefree!
I'd speak to the sister as after all, that is the family link. I'd say I expected rent that she could afford on her salary regardless of how it works out with her partner and at discounted rate, which would be £800-1000? I'd also suggest a tenancy agreement, but be prepared for her to say she might move out etc.
I'm almost laughing as I type, as although I'm dispensing advice, neither myself or my family like to confront my sister, as she either plays a poor me card with other members of the family or gets really angry and it's often just not worth it. Easier to just let her carry on. Classic CF behaviour, enabled by a lifetime of letting her get away with things, argh! Don't know if this is relevant, but she's the youngest. Is yours?

ElspethFlashman · 09/05/2020 14:05

So this sister pays no rent, chooses to only work 2.5 days a week even though both kids are out of primary school, gets no maintenance, but sends both kids to a private school?

Then moves in her well paid boyfriend after presumably telling him she pays no rent?

She's a fucking genius. An absolute genius.

mrsmuddlepies · 09/05/2020 14:15

Imagine the reaction on here if it was your SIL? I am with your husband. You are being way too kind to your sister at the expense of your relationship with your husband. YABVU

timeisnotaline · 09/05/2020 14:41

What backseatcookers says : I hope young women (and men) know that it's ok to want to work full time if you love your job and it works for your family, it doesn't have to be something you only do because you're up against it financially and have no choice.

Original poster

emz771 · 09/05/2020 14:55

I think my point here has been taken out of context.

Of course it’s ok for women to work full time if they want to not just if they need to. It’s absolutely ok to be SAHM, it’s ok to be a CEO flying all over the world, it’s ok to work full time, it’s ok to dedicate a big part of your life to a career that you are passionate about and helps people. Of course all those things are ok.

I am just talking from my family points of view - I haven’t been full time in 16 years and doubt very much if I will be again. With 4 kids, 2 dogs, and other things I like to have the time to make sure the house runs, to make sure the kids have got everything they need for their hobbies, to food shop etc. I wouldn’t want to waste family weekends doing those things.

The same is true of my sister - although admittedly she isn’t in such a position to be able to do it.

OP posts:

HappydaysArehere · 09/05/2020 15:08

Interesting suggestion that your sister might be receiving what her partner thinks is a share of the rent. Surely he would expect to do so. Surprising that your sister hasn’t brought the subject of her paying you at least some rent after her situation changed.

mrsmuddlepies · 09/05/2020 15:23

We are heading for the biggest recession this country has ever known. The idea that someone is not saving for a pension because she finds it difficult to work more than 2.5 days a week is hugely disrespectful to most women. Your husband could well find property development is one of the first things to be affected by the depression, particularly if house prices fall dramatically.
I think you are doing your sister no favours in shielding her from full time work and building up a pension.
I am afraid I think you and your sister sound really entitled and out of touch.

ElspethFlashman · 09/05/2020 16:15

You work part time because you can afford to.

It's very different in her circumstances.

My cynical side whispers that she never looked for full time work because then she couldn't play the "I can't afford rent" card. If you're earning £32K a year, you can pay rent! But at only 16k, then your rich sister isn't going to ask for a penny. So why on earth work more hours???

Coyoacan · 09/05/2020 16:25

The same is true of my sister - although admittedly she isn’t in such a position to be able to do it

I'm all for part-time work when one has children, but I don't think you kindness is good for your sister. She has not learnt how to stand on her own two feet and is even less likely too as she gets older. Are you planning to leave this house with long-term rent-free tenants for your children to deal with?

ilovemydogandMrObama · 09/05/2020 16:29

Why don't you put the money you get from rent into a savings account for your nephews?

ScrewBalls99 · 09/05/2020 16:53

You sound lovely OP, your sister is lucky to have you. I don't think it's your responsibility to fund your sister.

Myself and my partner work full-time, I would not expect my sibling to support me so I could work part-time.

I love the above suggestion to take rent and put it into savings for your nephews. If you have kids it could go into investments it pensions for them too OP.

I don't think you would be unreasonable asking for rent, or charging the going rent. Don't beat yourself up over this, you are a lovely sister. If your sister doesn't respond well it is a reflection on her, not you

Meredithgrey1 · 09/05/2020 17:13

I really don't like the idea of OP putting the rent money aside for her niece/nephews. I can't quite articulate why, but I think it's because it feels patronising to her sister and if the rent caused any change in her sister's lifestyle (which it would of course, as everyone's does), it would be like OP saying later "it's ok, all the money I took I kept so DN can have it now, rather than you having it earlier when you needed it."

Meredithgrey1 · 09/05/2020 17:16

I do think the sister should be paying some sort of rent though. Even if it's just her and her bf sharing his half of the rent.

IcyWind · 09/05/2020 17:28

Your sister should be paying rent

MyOtherProfile · 09/05/2020 17:56

How did it go talking to your sister? Nor sure if I missed a bit...

Original poster

emz771 · 09/05/2020 17:58

Hi guys - an update.

It turns out I was being incredibly silly in regards to worrying about a reaction.

My sister said she was incredibly grateful - and had been using the last year to try and save a few pounds after being cleared out.

Her OH had no idea she was living there rent free. I don’t know why - but I got the feeling he was protecting my sister and not telling me everything . When he left the room she said he had been giving her £500 per month housekeep - and that she had used it for various credit card debt which has now been cleared. I do wish she had told me - and yes slightly underhand but not going to fall out with her over it as she has had it rough.

Anyway we just received a WhatsApp from her OH who said he will set up a direct debit for £1000 from June 1st and as a gesture is going to pay 2k into our account tonight and back dated rent and won’t take no for an answer.

Anyway husband is happy, I’m happy, sister and her OH are happy.

Thank you for listening.

OP posts:

MyOtherProfile · 09/05/2020 17:59

That's wonderful. Well done.

Itwasntme1 · 09/05/2020 18:09

Glad it worked out.

But he must have know £500 housekeeping, which I assumed covered food, bills and rent, was an incredibly good deal? He is a grown man who has lived alone. He really was on to a really good thing.

Glad he has corrected it now.

DorsetCamping · 09/05/2020 18:11

Wow, what a great result!

HollowTalk · 09/05/2020 18:13

Fantastic result.

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