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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:
Susiesoap7 · 09/05/2020 11:37

Learn your lesson, never rent to family!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 11:37

U may find they dont wanna pay 800 when its never theirs. I wouldn't. Would u ?

Do you understand what renting is, as opposed to a mortgage?

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 11:40

Absolutely if it doesn’t work out with the guy - it’s hers rent free for as long as she needs it. If that’s life so be it.

Her ex is always looking for a new get rich quick scheme - so maintenance isn’t something she sees much of.

OP posts:
BemidjiMinnesota · 09/05/2020 11:41

He obviously moved in after 8 months because the rent was free. A previous poster mentioned about him acquiring an interest in the property by redecorating etc. You might think he'd never do that and he'd leave without a peep if asked, but you're being naive. Most wives think their husband would never shaft them and the children in the divorce, but inevitably they do.

You would be protecting your sister by signing a rental agreement. It can be for a peppercorn rent, but if it names her as the sole tenant, then he can be asked to leave at any time.

isitspringyet23 · 09/05/2020 11:41
Biscuit
Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 11:41

I’m not sure I fully understand the question?

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 11:49

He is a good man - but 7 years ago he learnt his brother a large sum. Far larger than we would have got in rent - to start a business.

Granted we got it back - but 2 years over the agreed time frame. So it’s not as though he has never helped family.

That's gratefully accepting help when you need it and then repaying once you're able to. Completely different from taking eternally, even once you can afford to pay your own way again.

Are you expecting your sister to repay all of the unpaid rent (£54K and counting) at some point, or does his side of the family get repayable loans whilst your side (and any associates) get outright gifts?

Itwasntme1 · 09/05/2020 11:49

OPhas the boyfriend ever acknowledged he lives in your house? Has he ever said thank you, or asked if he can say paint a room or anything like that?

Did your sister ask you or tell you he was moving in.

wantingahome · 09/05/2020 11:56

Wow. I wish someone would offer me a property for free! I wouldn't have the cheek to accept though. Your sister should have at least offered something as a token of her gratitude.

Thehop · 09/05/2020 12:02

You’ve done a really really amazing thing for your sister. It’s perfect rly reasonable for them now to lay some rent OP. Please don’t feel guilty, your husband is absolutely right.

Thurmanmurman · 09/05/2020 12:06

You are wonderful, generous people. The problem with that is that people take advantage. Pay for the steak so it doesn't cloud the issue and leave it a week before getting a rental agreement in place. This is CF behaviour if ever I saw it. The offer was for your sister, not some bloke who's been on the scene for 5 minutes.

Badhairday101 · 09/05/2020 12:09

You both sound really generous and your sister must feel lucky to have had that support when she was going through a really hard time.
It’s completely reasonable to ask for rent now that she is in a better position financially. Good luck with the talk.

DorsetCamping · 09/05/2020 12:15

Vaguely similar situation here. DBiL split from his 1st wife some years ago. We have self-contained annexe and out of pity DH said DBiL could live in it rent free until 'he was back on his feet".

Well a year later DBiL was still installed, making no gesture to at least contribute to utilities/food, despite having a reasonably well paid job. No attempt at saving for a deposit on a new place; instead out drinking every weekend with mates; serenading new GF.

Utterly taking the piss out of DH's generosity and creating resentment in our marriage.

Like 'steak gate' the final nail in the coffin was when he did a booze cruise to France to fill up his car with beer and fags. Offered to bring us back a few bottles of wine and then presented us with the bill!! Never mind we had probably saved him best part of £4K over the year Angry

I snapped and he was politely invited to find somewhere new to live forthwith!

Be careful that your generosity doesn't damage your relationship with DH

Ariseandsmellthetea99 · 09/05/2020 12:16

I think you suffered here from not clarifying properly the terms either at the start or before he moved in. She probably assumes you don't need the money. She also probably isn't sharing finances with new man.
What would have been fair is to say prior to him moving in that he would need to pay half the rent (so £750/month) as your offer of rent free was only for your sister. But now you've left it and been passive aggressive. Whilst I have sympathy in many ways, you could have avoided this by being more straightforward. My parents do this all the time and then moan when people take them at the word. Please don't snipe, have a calm, kind and sensible conversation with your sister.

Ariseandsmellthetea99 · 09/05/2020 12:18

Sorry missed your last update. Hope the conversation goes well. You sound like good, very kind people who are trying to help (just be straightforward with the terms!)

Original poster
emz771 · 09/05/2020 12:19

That’s interesting to hear.

It’s nothing to do with the cost is it - it’s the gesture. And the wine thing sounds similar to steak gate.

OP posts:
Noshowlomo · 09/05/2020 12:23

It’s time to at up OP. Let us know how the chat goes.

HannaYeah · 09/05/2020 12:23

I think most decent people wouldn’t want to see their family struggle while they were living comfortably. Especially when the amount necessary to prevent their struggle would have not impact on their own budget. It’s also lovely that you want to her to have the same time with her children that you do with yours.

The point is your family shouldn’t be subsidizing this grown man. The free housing is for your sister, not her live-in boyfriend.

It would be a shame if she ended up paying even half the £1000 herself when that is not your intent.

I’d first have a private discussion with her and tell her that she and the children can stay for free, but the boyfriend needs to pay rent and almost contribute to upkeep of the property. If he’s not out willing to do that then she’s got another dud.

timeisnotaline · 09/05/2020 12:23

You sound very kind, I hope the conversation goes well. I don’t think the bf is necessarily a freeloader, I can easily imagine a conversation
Bf: what should I pay in rent?
Sis: no silly I told you I don’t pay rent. I’m in one of sisters properties and she doesn’t charge me.
Bf well If you're sure?
Sis: of course, I can’t charge you for money I’m not paying, that would be taking the piss!

It’s your sisters responsibility, you’re doing her a favour, not him.

HannaYeah · 09/05/2020 12:24

*also, not almost

Idontwantthis · 09/05/2020 12:27

Erm I think your sisters bf is on to a good thing here...where is his self respect? How is with you, considering you are literally housing him? Hmm

Idontwantthis · 09/05/2020 12:27

How is HE with you, rather

recycledbottle · 09/05/2020 12:33

I understand steak gate as something similar happened to me. It seems that you have both decided to take care of your sister which is your choice. Just dont expect any gratitude for this. It seems this property is essentially a write off if you have taken the view that she can live there as long as she likes. Thats fair enough if you and DH agree. I wouldnt entertain offering her a more expensive property as your DM suggested as this new, more expensive property, will become the new write off property, which I think you know. Family being looked after is one thing but an outsider having a free ride is different. I actually dont think that the call with your sister will go badly but think you might be expected to settle for half i.e 750. Best of luck OP and I would ensure that DH is happy. He and your DC are your main priority.

Birdshitbridgegotme · 09/05/2020 12:46

I do think no rent is them being a cf. But you have also said indent know how many times that you dont need the money and u own a few properties. Your sis obviously dont own any property or she would be living in it so weather she has a bf or not I would say £500 a month. So that they could also live a nice lifestyle. Why not? It's not going to hurt you financially you have stated that. So just agree that they pay 500 a month just to cover any problems u need to fix.

Ughmaybenot · 09/05/2020 12:59

I cannot get over how cheeky your sister is. She’s completely taking the piss. Why bother yourself with working when you can have the lifestyle all handed to you? Hmm it is a bit pathetic really.
You probably think I’m being harsh, so I’m sorry for that.
You’re right to ask for rent, altho I wouldn’t necessarily word it that now the boyfriend lives there, more that now her situation overall is better, rent would be appropriate.
You’re still being ridiculously kind to rent it out at so much less than market rate. You sound very generous indeed.