Honest Advice please

[emz771]

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

Can I be your sister? Having a proper home for my kids without worry of being evicted. Somewhere I could decorate and garden, maybe even a dog and rabbit, and be home. I’d gladly pay you the £1500 I do now but with secure tenancy.

Your sisters royally taking the piss, she’s something I could only dream of for her kids, a secure proper home. She should be paying it. If it’s racking guilt put some in a uni account for her kids. But yes she’s taking the piss. Nip it in the bud before it’s an issue

What happens when you need to cash in for retirement? Childrens future prospects? The longer this goes on the worse it's going to be for your relationship. What if anything happens to you/your marriage? She's not really safe in that house without some signed agreement surely.

This must be a wind up!

To be fair to my sister she works 2.5 days a week. I think that’s enough with a 12 year old, 14 year old, meals to cook, shopping to do etc
Can I hear all the working mums 🤣🤣🤣
It sounds like your family have lost a grip on reality, she lives rent free whilst sending her kids to fee paying school that’s not having it hard that’s being a bloody chancer!
And now your mum wants you to give her a £3k pm house!!
Are you all on crack??

Tbh I moved into my mum and husbands property when I was 19 rent free whole we needed it. 1.5 yr later the rent started at 120 a month instead of 450 in that area we paid 120 whilst we saved up. U may find they dont wanna pay 800 when its never theirs. I wouldn't. Would u ?
Just say u could buy it from us or rent it but since u are now in a different situation than u was b4 I think we need to re look at the housing situation x

Your Dsis is a C.F sorry.

Guys thanks again for all the responses.

I didn’t mean to offend with the 2.5 days a week - as I’m fully aware some mums have to work full time. I only work 3 days a week A and I do like having that time to organise things for the family. That’s all I meant by it.

We are speaking this afternoon - and I’m sure all will go well.

I'm going super against the grain here but honestly? If you don't need the money and your sister has kids and has struggled financially, I would actually not be bother making her pay, because I wouldn't care about the guy. The house is her stability to raise her kids in. Is she going to be with this guy forever? I'm kind of seeing from the same perspective as, maintenance from partners isn't included as a woman's income. Because it could easily stop and they could easily break up. Sounds like I'm the only one who feels this way though.

If it isnt a big deal maybe ask for 300 quid a month rent I would not pay 800 for rent I'd wanna pay that on a mortgage or give her the house and charge it as a mortgage

They're taking the puss, but you should have got it in writing.

You need to be firm and precise.
Say it was rent free for you and only you as long as you need it.
It isn't rent free for anyone else or rent free for any chancer who fancies a free ride.
That you expect rent from him as long as he lives there.
What kind of bloke moves in with someone and expects a free ride?
It will be interesting to see how long he hangs around once he is expected to pay.

I’ll be interested to hear the outcome. We can’t assume the guy knows the set up!

To be fair to my sister she works 2.5 days a week. I think that’s enough with a 12 year old, 14 year old, meals to cook, shopping to do etc.

Do you work 2.5 days a week? Does your husband?

I'm struggling to believe this, based on the comment I've highlighted here. If it's true, you are doing your sister absolutely no favours in allowing her to be such a freeloader.

To be fair to my sister she works 2.5 days a week. I think that’s enough with a 12 year old, 14 year old, meals to cook, shopping to do etc
You are joking surely? I guess the sense of entitlement runs in the family. I understand why your oh is especially pissed off.

Maybe she thinks you're so rich, you don't miss the money and her oh are quite poor at £60k combined.

I work 3 days a week my husband runs his own business so Is flexible to an extent. I do realise many have to work full time with kids - but I do think it’s nice for her to be able to have those 2.5 days to organise the kids and life in general.

You've been very kind OP but it needs to stop. Your sister really should have offered payment as soon as she was able - ie. at the moment her partner moved in. You sound very close but this is taking advantage.
Your mum's position is a simple one - most parents like to see their children on a similar financial footing where possible. However where that's not the case it's totally wrong to expect you to subsidise that. You have kindly done so, until now, but it's not your responsibility and the partner wouldn't be living anywhere else for free.
Also as you're a lawyer you'll be aware that at some stage it's important to put in writing that whatever he pays, decorates, refurbs, etc he's not acquiring an interest in the property. Whilst you trust your sister if they split up, no matter how wonderful he seems, he might change.

This is all so confusing. Does the new boyfriend even know that the house is yours and that she pays no rent. Eg does he know that you are the landlord

Also if you thought that in the future they might split up you could always ringfence the rent and then use it to subsidise your sister again in the future

I think it was fine when it was just her but now he is there it's time they moved on with there lives together in a new house and you can rent out yours to someone who pays

To be fair to my sister she works 2.5 days a week. I think that’s enough with a 12 year old, 14 year old, meals to cook, shopping to do etc.

I’m starting to think you’re having a laugh now. Someone who works 2.5 days therefore has 4.5 days to cook meals ‘organise the house’ etc etc, if she can’t afford rent she could double her working hours & income. Starting to sound like a freeloader now.

but I do think it’s nice for her to be able to have those 2.5 days to organise the kids and life in general
If she can afford it, yes. It shouldn't be a life choice to avoid paying her rent. Your oh must be a saint to have said nothing until now.

He is a good man - but 7 years ago he learnt his brother a large sum. Far larger than we would have got in rent - to start a business.

Granted we got it back - but 2 years over the agreed time frame. So it’s not as though he has never helped family.

Is the real issue here that you and your husband don't see your sister's partner as family?

But he isn’t family – he’s been the sister’s boyfriend for 8 months. He clearly doesn’t see them as family, otherwise he wouldn’t dream of asking for the steak money back whilst scoring free rent for 8 months and counting from his girlfriend’s BIL.

How about you completely leave your sister out of it – she’s family, on a low income and has been told she can live there rent-free. Go straight to the boyfriend and tell him the rent-free was for your sister, but can’t be extended to partners. Her share is still free, but he will need to start paying for his share. You gave them a big buffer zone, but you can’t really be expected to allow well-paid non-family to not pay any rent. Any protests about “but I AM family now” can be countered with “why did you ask for the steak money back then? Don’t families give and take – and considering how very much we’ve already given you”.

They’re highly unlikely to be pooling their money after 8 months and unmarried, so it’s a simple case of him needing to pay his own rent, as adults do. If he says that they do pool their money, then that means that they can obviously both now afford to pay their (subsidised) rent. If he looks genuinely flummoxed and says “But I have been paying rent – I‘ve paid £900 (or whatever) to Sister each month for my share”, ask your sister if that’s true – if so, that would be clear proof that she hasn’t just been freeloading from you but actually stealing.

OP i firmly believe in helping others, especially family, if you can afford it but let's put this into perspective. If your sister has lived there rent free for around 3 years that's over £50,000 in rent you have waived. You say 8 months ago her partner moved in so around £12,000 of that is rent since he has been there. I think you have been more than generous tbh and quite frankly a lovely sister to her.

Just out of interest, If she didn't last with the guy she is with and he moved out would you go back to not charging her rent?

So she came out of a divorce with nothing financially and still only works part time ? Did she work full time and then dropped her hours when she met the boyfriend? I have to be honest it doesn’t sound like your sister has a very good work ethic. If you’d be screwed over by a husband who was shit with money wouldn’t that teach you that you have to stand on your own two feet? Nope - she’s relying on relatives for a free house and presumably her partner to cover the rest of her expenses while she works part time. I’m embarrassed for her.