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Original poster

Will black lives ever matter?

860 replies

RockLock · 08/05/2020 12:36

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

OP posts:
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10
VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 18:42

I said this before, it's still a common human trait to be 'unsure' of anything and anybody who seems different, not just in colour, but sexuality, belief, behaviour...

But to be unsure is one thing, to turn that into targeting, bullying and worse becomes a serious issue. There is prejudice in us all... as in 'prejudging' - we make assumptions about so many things. But a hatred is something much more sinister.

I think personal prejudice may always exist, but institutional racism will one day be defeated - at least I hope. And if that day never comes? - that is no reason to not at least try to defeat it or minimise it.

MinnieMD · 10/05/2020 18:44

How would have channelling energy into redirecting young people from a life of criminality stopped the McMichaels murdering this young man?
Would that have saved Oscar Grant? Eric Garner? Michael Brown? Trayvon Martin? Walter Scott? Philando Castile?

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 18:45

To say someone isn't 'shocked' doesn't mean they don't deplore the violence, it just means that it is no longer a surprise, it is so commonplace. That is not to diminish how bad something is.

I'm not shocked by shootings in America. I highly doubt anybody is. But this particular poster is going out of his/her way to dream up reasons why this victim got what he deserved. The 'not being shocked' thing is a red herring which is detailing the conversation.

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 18:46

*derailing, not detailing

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 18:49

It is a two fold thing...

Yes, we need to try to steer all young men away from criminality - part of that is via giving them genuinely equal opportunities...
We also need to educate (and punish) racists. This is not so easy to do if you are born into a racist household in a racist community... it will take generations, but it IS improving, I truly believe that. Just not improving nearly enough.

We've had a few thousand years of it... it's not going away anytime soon.

BackseatCookers · 10/05/2020 18:52

To say someone isn't 'shocked' doesn't mean they don't deplore the violence, it just means that it is no longer a surprise, it is so commonplace. That is not to diminish how bad something is.

If you are aware of how commonplace these types of incidents are, you remain appalled that such incidents still happen, but you are not 'surprised' or 'shocked' by them.

Omg.

Nobody said that that poster wasn't shocked enough, nobody commented on her level of shock, it wasn't mentioned by anyone except him/her when they said they weren't shocked!!

I have at no time made any comment or deduced anything regarding their shock level - they stated it and repeated it when I specifically said that their shock isn't a factor / relevant to my points!

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 18:56

Nor did I say you did Backseat!

BackseatCookers · 10/05/2020 18:56

Protests are all well and good but I think the energy would be better channelled into redirecting young people from a life of criminality.

You do realise that much of the crime committed by poor people in any society is due to the systemic bias towards privileged people and the opportunities they are afforded?

To reduce that crime we need to dismantle and redistribute the privilege not just tell the underprivileged not to get so angry...but that top down approach would require buy in from people who feel safe and not personally affected which is why the bottom up approach tends to be more common.

God this thread is mind blowing.

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 18:57

We've had a few thousand years of it... it's not going away anytime soon
A few thousand years of what?

gooigi · 10/05/2020 18:58

Has everything to do with the black lives matter movement this thread is about.

Black lives matter is about racist violence against vlack people. So no t doesn't.

Do you have a source? Preferably one that isn't american free press?

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 19:00

Don't worry, he/she/it will be along with a racist website source soon.

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 19:01

A few thousand years of human behaviour where 'different' is not looked upon favourably... which leads to fear, resentment and in some cases hatred.

Racism is one of the many forms of prejudice, obviously. The efforts to reduce are working (in my opinion), but it's still rife in most walks of life, in most countries. Turning it around is a long slow process.

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 19:03

Of course this is about black lives matter...

The majority of us believe that the actions of those white men would have been very different had it been a white guy. As such, it's racist violent behaviour.

DangerMouse17 · 10/05/2020 19:08

Protests are all well and good but I think the energy would be better channelled into redirecting young people from a life of criminality.

Was the victim here a criminal then? So he caused his own death did he? I despair at the ignorance, sheer stupidity....and RACISM on this thread.

OgoPogo8 · 10/05/2020 19:09

Most US shootings are by a black assailant against a black victim.

Protests are all well and good but I think the energy would be better channelled into redirecting young people from a life of criminality.
I dont know if I should be engaging this whatabouttery, but....

I cant find any stats simply on shootings by race.

However, there are more 'white on white' homicides than 'black on black' per year in the US.

The black population is a lot smaller than the white population though, so there is a disproportionate amount of violent crime in black communities. I dont think it's much of a jump to say that's likely due, in part, to relative poverty (a hangover from slavery), and an institutionally racist justice system, that is far more likely to imprison a black person than a white person who committed the same crime.

Unfortunately, with so many racist white folk, I dont see things changing in the US any time soon.

NotNowPlzz · 10/05/2020 19:41

Young black people involved in criminality have NOTHING to do with this. Why would you bring it up? It is completely and entirely irrelevant and a distraction from the issue at hand, which is the serious problem of violent criminal gun-toting racist white men, both young and old. Why are you not calling for intervention programs for these men to redirect them from a life of criminality and murder?

BackseatCookers · 10/05/2020 19:45

Protests are all well and good but I think the energy would be better channelled into redirecting young people from a life of criminality.

How is this relevant to this crime?

The crime was committed by white men against a black man.

So why bring up black on black crime as some sort of strange whataboutery argument?

It's totally irrelevant to this situation. Totally.

Glowcat · 10/05/2020 19:48

It’s like bringing breast cancer into a discussion about women murdered by their partners. But much more racist.

WoodliceCollection · 10/05/2020 20:52

YANBU OP, and it's shocking anyone would think otherwise. This poor man's mother in the video, it's heartbreaking.

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 21:04

36% of 813 people (so almost 300) think YABU OP, so no I don't think black lives are going to matter any time soon.

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 21:04

Over 1/3 people!

memememoi · 10/05/2020 23:03

@Annamaria14 political movement aside, do you believe that black lives matter??

NearlyGranny · 10/05/2020 23:27

The day before yesterday, taking my daily lockdown exercise, I detoured a few metres and had a good nose at a house under construction near me. The doors and windows are on now, so I was peering in, but I had a good wander round it at an earlier stage. It's what people do. It's natural curiosity.

Nobody called the cops; nobody hunted me down; nobody shot me.

I'd bet the vigilante posse had explored that building site, too. I bet nobody called the cops to report them.

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 23:40

NearlyGranny but you're a woman, and I'm guessing, not black. If you had been shot somebody would have to pay immediately. Don't come on here muddying the waters. If you're not black then please accept my apologies because I'm as perplexed as you why you weren't shot.

Original poster
RockLock · 10/05/2020 23:47

NearlyGranny, I was thinking that if I saw a house under construction, I would be curious too and would want to take a closer look.

Even if I had a prior conviction, would it be ok to be followed, have gun pointed at me and then shot at for having been on a construction site? Judging by the votes, many would probably say yes to this.

If it was a white woman, would this be ok? If it was a white man, would this be ok? So why on earth are there justifications being provided for this being ok when the victim is a black? It is simply the dehumanisation of black people.

OP posts: