Will black lives ever matter?

[RockLock]

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

I think it's fair to say the VAST majority of us believe this to be a shocking crime, and almost certainly influenced by racist bellefs too.
Some of us see it as premeditated murder, others think it might be more of a premeditated vigilante take down gone wrong...

We will likely never see all of the evidence, but we can see some and discuss it.
It's ok to wonder what he was doing peering into a garage.
It's ok to wonder what was going through the minds of the white guys
It's ok to ask questions of both sides.

If someone asks questions about Mr Arbery, it doesn't make them racist, nor does it mean they think he has any guilt, or contributed to matters.
The same goes with the white guys. The evidence looks quite damning, but it's still ok to ask questions, and double check... it's a good thing to do.

Oh and he didn't enter a house. He was on the premises of a house being built. No one lived there, no possessions ir valuables there, except building materials possibly.
The house showed no signs of being burglarised.
He was unarmed.

Given he was in short ,tshirts and empty handed... what crime did he commit?

It's interesting the way some people humanise the killers ("the dad", "former policeman", "just went over the top") yet slander the victim with irrelevancies like a prior shoplifting arrest.
It's all done in a very wide-eyed way as well.

Spot on

it is not shocking to me because I have lived in the USA, and shootings happen ALL the time.

Oh that's ok then! 🤔🙄

Well here in normal countries it absolutely is shocking.

The incident was disgusting, abhorrent and appalling. The fact it took so long for the men to be charged because they had a friend in the judicial system is beyond words. That this isn't the first and won't be the last (remember the black medic shot by police when he was just giving CPR or similar to a white victim of a robbery?).

Not sure what we can do about the US. What about the UK?

Realistically would an ex police officer with all those years of experience, knowing how situations can escalate and how likely taking a gun into a situation will mean that gun will be used respond in the way McMichael did?

You said this in response to me:

it is not shocking to me because I have lived in the USA, and shootings happen ALL the time.

I'm still not sure what your point is by this? I didn't say you don't sound shocked enough I said your wording "over the top mode" as a description of a man being shot to death is underwhelming.

@BackseatCookers personally, I think that it is incredibly sad, awful and an injustice. And the men should go to prison.

But I can't personally be shocked by it. As I saw and heard about so many 1 on 1 shootings, gang shootings, and mass shootings while I lived in the USA. It does start to become normal. Which is awful, and shows the extent of the problem.

I don’t care if he was walking around with a striped shirt and a bag marked ‘swag’ over his shoulder. What happened was obscene. Armed private citizens chasing down and shooting an unarmed man. The fact that it is normalised in the US with ‘Stand your ground’ laws doesn’t make it less abhorrent.

But I can't personally be shocked by it. As I saw and heard about so many 1 on 1 shootings, gang shootings, and mass shootings while I lived in the USA. It does start to become normal. Which is awful, and shows the extent of the problem.

I don't get it. I haven't asked you to be shocked or questioned if you are or not. Whether you're shocked or not is irrelevant to anything I have said. That was why I asked what your point was bringing up directly to me that you aren't shocked - that has no bearing on anything I have said?

• I was so shocked in the USA, I never knew how cruel people could be. I saw black people really being looked down on like they were animals.

White people have a responsibility to get rid of white supremacy*

They have to put up with this shit all the time, and far worse - getting shot and killed

• White people do not want to think about racism?

Why? Because the minute thet we do, we have to look at how bad white people have been for centuries.

We have to look at all the atrocities that have been done by white people to black people, for a very long time.

We have to look at how bad we have been as a race, and all the pain and deaths thst we have caused.*

• Have you seen the son in this case? He looks like something out of the hills have eyes.

My friend always said "the biggest defenders of the white race, are usually the worst examples of it"*

Did you see that it took them two months to charge the father and son, aswell!

Can't be arsed to look any further. Funny how your shock and rage have disappeared and you're suddenly desensitised in just two days.

Who cares if you're not shocked. What are you posting on this thread for then?

Realistically would an ex police officer with all those years of experience, knowing how situations can escalate and how likely taking a gun into a situation will mean that gun will be used respond in the way McMichael did? @MrsDoylesTeaBags

Indeed.

To my mind it's more indicative of the gun(g)-ho attitude he probably had in the police department carried over into civilian life where authority (backed by firearms) allowed them to be overly aggressive and quite probably make many mistakes without serious consequence.

Everything about the way they approached the young black man was confrontational, and not 'enquiring'.

@Namechangervaver I was replying to the oerson who said that my language was "underwhelming". That I wasn't shocked enough.

Anyway..

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock wow you certainly have a lot of time on your hands.

As do you, just not enough apparently to fully read your BREAKING NEWS and make the difference between a home(s) and a house under construction.

While not being shocked bla bla bla

@Annamaria14 you certainly seem disingenuous.

I was replying to the oerson who said that my language was "underwhelming".

I said that. Underwhelming as in minimising, lessening, not proportionate. You used a casual and strangely reductive turn of phrase (over the top mode) as a description of someone being shot to death in broad daylight.

That I wasn't shocked enough.

I did NOT say that. Only you did! Nobody said you weren't shocked enough, you just keep telling us you weren't shocked.

Your attitude is appalling.

Most US shootings are by a black assailant against a black victim.

Protests are all well and good but I think the energy would be better channelled into redirecting young people from a life of criminality.

Most US shootings are by a black assailant against a black victim.

Which has fuck all to do with the shooting this thread is about.

Or are you going to link to a white supremacist website too?

I think people are being harsh here.

To say someone isn't 'shocked' doesn't mean they don't deplore the violence, it just means that it is no longer a surprise, it is so commonplace. That is not to diminish how bad something is.

If you are aware of how commonplace these types of incidents are, you remain appalled that such incidents still happen, but you are not 'surprised' or 'shocked' by them.

@Gooigi

Has everything to do with the black lives matter movement this thread is about.

Tbh I think maybe black lives will always be worse, on the whole. At least in majority white countries. Perhaps in 200 or 300 years things will truly be equal. Maybe longer than that.

Things are so deeply entrenched that I wish people would stop the knee jerk reaction of stating they are not racist. It's so reductive.

I'll say I am racist, I'm a product of hundreds of years of being on the lucky side of a loaded deck. Without doing or saying or consciously thinking anything racist I would say I've delivered a few of the death by a thousand cuts that people who are not white receive.

Malcolm X said that the white man cannot resist the urge to control the committee and the black man subconsciously reacts to that. I think there was a great deal of truth in that.

We just won't get anywhere unless we start genuinely listening and accepting.

Most US shootings are by a black assailant against a black victim.

Even if this is true (which I highly doubt and you need to show your source when asserting such a thing), what has that got to do with this case?

Are you saying these tests should get away with it because of this?

The whataboutery on this thread is strong

twats, not tests