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Will black lives ever matter?

860 replies

RockLock · 08/05/2020 12:36

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

OP posts:
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ttim985y · 10/05/2020 01:15

What is astounding is that an attorney apparently uninvolved in this (but who clearly sympathises with the father and son) leaked the video online to prove the innocence of the father and son

'I really thought releasing the video would put the truth out to the public,' Tucker stated.

Oh it certainly did put the truth out ...... just not how he thought

Ineedaduvetday · 10/05/2020 07:34

The hangover from slavery and segregation is far more noticeable there. And the much bigger wealth inequality gap

But this case is also about power. The DA refused to agree to the suspects arrest as he / she knew the elder suspect for 20 years.

NearlyGranny · 10/05/2020 09:44

Imagine the young man's terror, empty-handed and hotly pursued by three hostile men, at least two of them armed, in two vehicles. If he runs for help to any of the houses he passes, he's likely to meet just such another armed person ready to shoot him on sight.

It seems black people, especially young black me, spend their lives in hostile territory in a way women can probably understand better than men.

TooTrueToBeGood · 10/05/2020 11:36

it seems more like a genuine struggle than a premeditated murder.

What utter bollocks. You cannot just base your opinion of the incident by considering the struggle in isolation. They set out with guns to hunt him down before there even was a struggle. That context is vital to any sane determination of what happened.

UmmH · 10/05/2020 11:49

@HelloToMyKitty I do think racism exists in America...

Oh you think so, do you? Well done.

You do realise that 'stats' are not irrefutable evidence? That stats have to be questioned and interpreted like any other evidence?

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 12:04

What utter bollocks. You cannot just base your opinion of the incident by considering the struggle in isolation. They set out with guns to hunt him down before there even was a struggle. That context is vital to any sane determination of what happened.

Clearly not read previous posts then have you?

Namechangervaver · 10/05/2020 12:10

The legal/judicial system in America beggars belief. It's like a tin pot dictatorship, not a so called first world country. Anybody seen Making A Murderer on Netflix, or the documentary about those young men falsely convicted of rape in Central Park? They get away with this shit all the time and people just turn a blind eye/ justify it. Sickening.

Annamaria14 · 10/05/2020 12:22

America is a shocking country. I don't know how it developed into the way it is.

I was thinking: settlers from Europe went to both Canada and the USA, around the time,

Yet,

Canada is a peaceful, humanitarian country.

The USA is materialistic, incredibly corrupt, rife with racism, terrible justice system, terrible health care, gun crazy and has the largest amount of people in prison.

How did it get so bad?

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 12:27

in the UK, if you take a gun out like they did, it's deemed horrific (rightly so in my view), but in the USA, this is so commonplace and accepted, it is difficult to fathom.

Going out with a gun in the USA simply isn't always seen as a clear indication of premeditation to murder. We might not like it, or agree with it, but that's the truth. Many Americans see no problem with it.

What then transpires is an unholy mess. 3 shots fired, none of which look to 'aimed' and fired deliberately but 3 accidentals is also hard to believe.

TorkTorkBam · 10/05/2020 12:46

America was settled by religious fanatics.

NearlyGranny · 10/05/2020 13:09

The lawyer who took the video is a friend of the two killers, apparently. They appear to have been acting like a wild west posse out to get their bad guy. Why bother having a paid police force at all, you might wonder, when armed citizens are out hunting and shooting dead anyone they don't like the look of? I thought they hired a sheriff to sort that problem out!

And the victim's family was told - by the police - that their son/brother had been apprehended committing a burglary. Only if running and burglary are the same thing in their vocabulary.

Annamaria14 · 10/05/2020 13:14

When I was in the USA last year, an American man said that the USA is so f"&ked up because England sent all their criminals and convicts there.

I know that is a simplified version, but is it true?

What Europeans went to the USA originally?

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 10/05/2020 13:22

@Annamaria14 you're thinking of Australia,they got the criminals and convicts.

America had religious fanatics first.

Funny how that ended up.

MarieQueenofScots · 10/05/2020 13:38

you're thinking of Australia,they got the criminals and convicts

Convicts were sent to America too.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 10/05/2020 13:58

You're right they did , however in less numbers and it's not an explanation for the outcome of America is today. The convicts represented only about 10% of the population and were used for manual labour.

However I do apologise for my snappy and snarky reply. I was being a dick.

RockLock · 10/05/2020 14:00

The settlers annihilated the indigenous population in America to stake claim to their land. Then they brought in slavery. It is absolutely shocking how they treat non-whites even today. So little has changed.

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 10/05/2020 14:20

They didn't even properly ended slavery until recently what with indentured service, Jim Crow laws, biased judiciary and all that.

I worked in the bible belt of the USA in the nineties. I was deeply shocked at the overt racism. I was even more shocked at how downtrodden and separate the black community was. Very striking how few mixed race families existed. I did not once get chatted up by a black man when out and about but white men were quite happy to approach me. The whole society seems set up to entrench the idea that race is real and exists as fixed boxes like black and white are clearly separate categories. Never occurs to them that it is weird to not have loads of mixed race families like you'd get in European countries. IMO, their daily experience is of quite separate communities and just goes to reinforce the stereotypes. Failure to travel makes it worse.

It is always fun to bring my US colleagues to London, Copenhagen, Paris or Birmingham and see how much makes them give a double take.

I worked in France in the eighties. There was vile abuse towards "Les Arabs" that surprised me.

In Ulster the separation of catholic and protestant was also an eye opener.

Asia's splits too were surprising to witness.

I have come to the conclusion that all peoples are inclined to be vile to those who are "other". Every place has some group living there who are somehow kept separate, whether by historical accident, separatist leader pressure (e.g. religious leaders and wannabe lords), or accident of geography. Whatever the split, there is an ism. In the US, they made the split on race and it is still strongly entrenched. God knows how they can fix it.

One of my mixed race cousins thought of working where I did in the US. I told him to avoid like the plague because he looked too black and would have a shit time. And possibly even get murdered because he, a Brummy, would not give a second thought to chatting up a white lass.

C130 · 10/05/2020 14:24

Some people in America are still displaying the same mentality that caused the murder of Emmett Till. I do not know how that will ever change. Some of the replies on this thread do not surprise me I am sad to say.

Liddell · 10/05/2020 14:26

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/09/ahmaud-arbery-father-marcus-georgia-running

An article today, interviewing Ahmaud's father.

So sad for him and his family.

VerticalHorizon · 10/05/2020 14:29

It will change, it is just such a slow process.

I can remember the 1980's in the UK when lots of people took issue with homosexuality. Many still do, but not nearly as many as back then.

Heck, we still have issues all over the planet with sexism in countless forms and to varying degrees. Ageism too...

Racism isn't going away any time soon - but there will come a day.

BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup · 10/05/2020 14:45

@Annamaria14 there is lots of racism in Canada. Just asked native Americans especially the disappeared women and girls no one looks for.

VikVal81 · 10/05/2020 14:45

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PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 10/05/2020 14:46

Let's not paint this guy in the innocent light though, he did have a weapon on him and he did charge at one of the guys.

What weapon?

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 10/05/2020 15:01

Actually no , you know what? Ignore that.

Even if he had a fucking grenade launcher hidden in his shorts, as a civilian,you do not arm yourself, chase someone , stop your truck in front of them and confront them while armed.

Why? Because it's fucking stupid,irrational and bound to end in violence/death.

The second they armed themselves and went after him they sealed Ahmaud's fate, regardless of his footwear or imaginary weapons, of which there are no mentions in the police report.

A police report where the killers (which what they are) ... surprise surprise ... lied!

BackseatCookers · 10/05/2020 15:09

@VikVal81

Let's not paint this guy in the innocent light though, he did have a weapon on him and he did charge at one of the guys. Lots of unanswered questions and too much emotion.

You've said this factually so you need to back it up otherwise you're spreading irresponsible and incorrect information about a man who has been murdered.

What weapon?

No news sources have reported, let alone confirmed, he was in possession of a hammer. This has been something a few people on 4chan and reddit have said. It is not anything that has been reported or confirmed by news outlets or the police.

Charged at one of the guys? He attempted to run away from men who accosted him without reason in the street while they were in possession of weapons. He tried to defend himself.

If someone tried to accost you, wouldn't let you run away and were aggressive to you, do you not think you would try to defend yourself? He had every right to do so.

He was followed, accosted and shot to death because of his skin colour.

I am baffled at the apologists on this thread, especially those who say well yes they murdered him but add in mitigating factors based on false information like the non existent weapon.