To not want to move to Wales?

[dgarcia85]

My OH and I live in SE London and we are about to start TTC. We both agree we need to decide where we want to live as we want our kids to have a stable home and not move around. I work at a council and earn £35K. It’s a great place to work and I don’t want to leave. I also will be starting a second consulting job soon earning an additional £10K. My OH is studying p/t and earns £20K. I want to move closer to work most likely Purley renting first and then buying when we can afford too. OH doesn’t think we will ever be able to buy anything in Croydon/London and he wants to move to Wales where his parents are as it’s cheaper and they can help out with any kids. I’m from the Caribbean originally and I’ve been living in London for 15 years and made it my home and I don’t really want to start over in another new plus. Hi Plus I feel like our mixed race kids would fit in better in London and I love my job. I know Wales makes more sense financially but I can’t bring myself to agree to it and its now causing arguments....

As some posters have said above, there are some major red flags here, OP...

You sound energetic, ambitious, forward looking and focussed. From what you say, his mindset is very different: he seems to have a much more narrow, insular and restricted attitude to life. The fact that his mother is weighing in and trying to pull him back to the small town he was born in is worrying - not only because it's an indication of her future role in your relationship, but also because it suggests that this small town, limited mindset is really ingrained in his family and his community.

You moved continents and made it work. You built an impressive career. Meanwhile, it took him until his early 30s (and with your input) to even think about moving out of his mother's house and expanding his horizons beyond the easiest local admin job he could find. Now - after just a few years - you have already sacrificed a chunk of that for him. There's a real danger that this trend will just continue.

I would think carefully about the environment you want to raise children in. Your boyfriend blames his parents for "not pushing him" (a bit of a cop out by the time you're in your 30s, but OK...) - do you want your kids to be surrounded by those attitudes? Some areas of Wales are severely economically depressed - unemployment has been so high for so long that there are generations who have never had many opportunities and it becomes the norm... Expectations are low and it takes a LOT to overcome that. Of course, it's not like that everywhere - and it's not a problem that's unique to Wales - but it certainly sounds like your boyfriend and his family are in that mindset.

That's not to say that you can't be a good match - there are plenty of couples where one is ambitious and energetic and the other is more in their slipstream. But that only really works if he's willing to be supportive of you while you go out as the main breadwinner - and it sounds like that means staying in London. Could he get on board with a version of life where he is the stay at home parent and supports you in your career? So you can level up again at work if you want to, pull the occasional late night at the office when you need to and know that you have the support at home? Could that be an option?

Otherwise, there's a very clear path here that leads to you being trapped with young children in a tiny, less-than-diverse village in Wales with a community you feel excluded from, a job that doesn't challenge you, a husband who refuses to challenge himself and a mother in law running the show. Be careful.

I moved to Cardiff over a year ago as my DH was promoted and re-located and TBH I'd rather go back to England :( we have already agreed we will be going back once this pandemic is over and he's going to try and get a transfer so you're not being unreasonable for not wanting to love and your DH should respect that. It's a massive life changing commitment.

There is a reason why property is cheaper in Wales, and part of it is that there are fewer services and amenities available there

Yes, because, Croydon (which is the OP's alternative) is a fucking cultural hotbed isn't it.

If there's one thing that's got a bit shit about Cardiff in recent years, it's that it's become an AirBnB/stag and hen do destination. Can't see that happening with Croydon. They must all be coming to see the shortage of amenities.

Where has the OP said she wants to move to Croydon though? Did I miss that?

Croydon wouldn’t be my top choice personally either, but you go a few miles out and it’s fine. I thought she was taking about Purley or somewhere like that? The South Downs are a beautiful area. Why would she be limited to Croydon? She could potentially live anywhere in London or the surrounding areas.

sleepingpup

Of course the salaries in Wales are lower compared to London that is why the cost of a house is lower.

Yes I have lived in Wales and have a far flung part of my family that come from Wales and I grew up learning Welsh from that part of my family.

I live in Cardiff and I can’t see why people would want to come here, it’s got nothing except a couple of world class arts venues (three if you count the College of Music and Drama where the BBC Young Musician of the Year Finals were recently held) home to the Welsh National Opera and National Orchestra of Wales , not forgetting the Cardiff International Arena, a sports Village with Olympic sized pool, one of the finest collections of neo classical architecture in Europe in the civic centre, including the National Museum which houses a superb collection of Impressionist paintings, beautiful Victorian shopping arcades, a vibrant waterfront area, oh and a castle and a world class sports venue right in the middle. Like I said, nothing here. It’s a deprived shithole.

Sorry can't speak for CROYDON, 😂

but I hear in Cardiff ,Wales they do leading Covid Resarch at the major teaching hospital, make TV programmes at the BBC ( Dr Who, Casualty etc) and Independents, His Dark Materials, have a Russell Group Uni, The WNO, A Senedd, Olympic Champions in many sports hello Geraint Thomas,^^ Theatres, National Museums, Sports Stadiums galore, play the Ashes, Rugby World Cups, most city Parks, Skating, Swimming, Biking arenas, Arts centres, drive to Beachesand lakes and mountains in under an hour and Tesco's and Ocado and Pret and everything. 😂😂

And all on 'welsh salaries' and with your usual 'ammeneties'.

obvs any move has to be right for you, but I agree with previous poster. Wales is the least of your problems.

@monkeycats it says in the OP that her husband doesn't think they'll ever be able to afford anything in Croydon/London

but I hear in Cardiff ,Wales they do leading Covid Resarch at the major teaching hospital, make TV programmes at the BBC ( Dr Who, Casualty etc) and Independents, His Dark Materials, have a Russell Group Uni, The WNO, A Senedd, Olympic Champions in many sports hello Geraint Thomas, Theatres, National Museums, Sports Stadiums galore, play the Ashes, Rugby World Cups, most city Parks, Skating, Swimming, Biking arenas, Arts centres, drive to Beachesand lakes and mountains in under an hour and Tesco's and Ocado and Pret and everything.

But we speak funny, apparently.

And give people looks in pubs. Which is why cardiff city centre is rammed with stag and hen dos every weekend.

I moved to Cardiff over a year ago as my DH was promoted and re-located and TBH I'd rather go back to England

Bye then.

Rowena - yes but when she was talking about Purley, I took it to mean that she meant the Borough of Croydon, rather than the actual town of Croydon itself. I’m no expert as I live in SW London, but I think Purley is in the Borough of Croydon, which extends into Surrey.

@SerenDippitty and @sleepingpup The OP has said several times that she would consider Cardiff but that she has this sinking feeling that her partner won't stop until he's got what he wants, which is to be in Abercarn. I don't think even the most patriotic Welsh person would argue that Abercarn is a thriving, diverse culture hotspot with lots of employment opportunities, would they?

Cardiff is great. I have family there, my brother went to uni there many years ago and has just moved back because he loves the place so much. We go to the rugby there. I know it's ethnically diverse, I know the people are nice, I know there's tons of stuff to do, I know there's plenty of culture and shops and restaurants. It's not London, it's never going to be London, but it's a great place to live. Bristol is also a great place to live. (I lived there for many years.)

But living in either of those places, as the OP has indicated she would consider doing, is worlds away from quitting her job with nothing to go to, moving in with her boyfriend's mother in Abercarn, and trying to find a decent job at the same time as trying to have a baby, which is what her partner is trying to get her to do.

The advantage of being outside the south east on a reasonable professional salary, which under non pandemic circumstances would be a realistic goal for OP, is the ability to buy a house that's a lower multiple of her salary and of superior quality to what might be afforded in London. The higher salaries in London in no way cover the greater cost of housing unless you're a very high earner, which OP wasn't even when she was in the law firm. A large part of the reason for this is that the London property market is distorted by being so popular with foreign investors from all over the globe, being seen as a safe home for one's money. This happens in regional cities too, but nowhere close to the same extent. It is a huge problem for ordinary Londoners.

That said, I'm not sure how much difference any of this makes, for three reasons. One, there are some red flags here. Two, he isn't interested in the obvious compromise option of Cardiff. Three, all bets are off because of coronavirus.

Also, no idea why people feel the need to start listing art galleries and the likes of Pret A Manger fgs What difference does that make? All cities in the UK have a certain level of “culture” and “amenities” - otherwise they wouldn’t be cities would they? Doesn’t mean you want to live there.

There is a reason why property is cheaper in Wales, and part of it is that there are fewer services and amenities available there

Yes because the Welsh live in caves and walk miles down dirt tracks to fetch water. We have to hunt for our food and everything.... It’s a hard life living in Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

All cities in the UK have a certain level of “culture” and “amenities”

have you been to croydon?

*Are you married op? Would you work on Wales? I'd be wary about making such big changes, especially if you aren't married.

If this is a dealbreaker, are you sure about TTC*

^^

Definitely this. If you aren't married, definitely don't give up your job and move. And if he won't compromise, I'd be thinking again about the relationship and TTC.

What is he studying for? Is this going to give him good job prospects at the end? Don't forget there's a massive recession predicted to happen very shortly. You might not want to be giving up a secure job unless you have one to move to.

Also, how would maternity leave work? Does he want you to move before or after the baby is born?

Yes I have been to Croydon.

Slightly off topic but personally I think it's far better to move to another city & aim for a better quality of life. I don't think you can achieve that on 50/60k in or near London in the OPs situation eg trying to get on the ladder, have a child & pay for childcare.

This is a bit off topic but I do get really annoyed with the (often) London-centric view that anywhere away from the capital is teeming with racists, is a cultural backwater and somehow just lesser. It is just so much BOLLOCKS.

I just get pissed off with people (not the OP, though I agree there are some red flags with her DP) thinking anywhere outside London, but Wales in particular, is a deprived shithole.

Ha! X-post Seren!

have you been to croydon?

Croydon is a 15 minute train ride from London Bridge. It is basically in London.

@TeensArghhhh, you're incredibly defensive and seem to be taking offence where none at all is meant? Are you 12 years old?

Croydon is a 15 minute train ride from London Bridge.

If you live near E Croydon station that is.